Click for Northern Lights Click for Westport Click for Burger Click for Delta Click for Burger

Sea Trial; It went well, then it didn't. AITAH?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Cpt Sous-Leau, Jun 20, 2024.

  1. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2013
    Messages:
    918
    Location:
    Chesapeake Bay, USA
    Agree, but OP mentioned seller restrictions...

    -Chris
  2. Cpt Sous-Leau

    Cpt Sous-Leau Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2024
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    USA, Earth
    I'm glad we have a lot of people here smarter than me on yacht purchase. Would have caught everything before plunking down any money at all. The broker should have done a lot of things, the seller should have done other lot of things. I should have done everything different. This is the THIRD attempted boat purchase, and so far all three have gone Tango Uniform.
  3. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2013
    Messages:
    918
    Location:
    Chesapeake Bay, USA
    Seems like now that you know more about what to expect -- and seller and broker hopefully are learning from you -- could end up being fine once the smoke clears. (Er... sorry, don't need actual smoke...)

    Could even be the broker actually knew stuff, but seller maybe wouldn't let him do anything about it.

    We shopped on the 560s and the earlier model 570s when we were last looking. Seemed like nice boats, although we went with a different solution. As it happens, there's a 560 temporarily blocked on a hydraulic trailer in our boatyard just now. Looks solid. (Seems like they had some problems with otters through the exhaust, or some such thing.)

    -Chris
  4. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,610
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    it s not the broker’s job to make sure the boat is in good shape.
  5. Cpt Sous-Leau

    Cpt Sous-Leau Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2024
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    USA, Earth
    We agree on one thing. His job is to move fiberglass. If anyone saw this boat - it's just pristine. I could eat off the engine room floor. The cherry wood shines like new. There's not a scratch, or speck, or nudge, or crack, or crease anywhere. It's a time capsule boat. The survey guy says it's the cleanest boat he's ever seen that wasn't brand new.
  6. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,166
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale
    A pristine boat not making minimum performance numbers?
    The bottom and the props have to be pretty darn dirty then, not pristine at all.
    Water soaked hull perhaps, like 10k lbs more weight than advertised?
    Is she sitting low on the lines, boot stripe below the surface?
    Pictures?
    Don’t feel bad if you spent money on several boats and rejected them, consider it money well spent.
    (I did the same but smaller boats: Surveyed and sea trialed 3 Albin 28TEs, rejected 2 and fell in love with the third. $3k I don’t regret spending back then, good investment)
    If this pristine queen doesn’t perform, kiss her goodbye, I would.o_O
  7. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2013
    Messages:
    918
    Location:
    Chesapeake Bay, USA
    Ref broker, sure. But if he wants to sell boats -- not just list boats -- he should likely be advising the seller about what's necessary to get this one gone. My only point was that he may have done that, and seller resistance may have been the stumbling block. Or maybe he's just a bozo.

    Pristine above the waterline sounds good. Just not good enough. Possible easily fixable.

    ~220 hours on engines still seems odd, to me... but that too could 'splain years of growth under there...

    -Chris
  8. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,610
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Over the years I have seen so many listings where you end up wondering if the listing broker had ever stepped foot on the boat. Things like “cruise ready” when the boat will not even make it thru a sea trial, after you remove all the junk stored in the ER…. Or “upgraded xxxx”… yeah 20 years ago.

    it s like some brokers put lipstick on the pig just to bring people to see the boat

    in this case hopefully it s just a matter of cleaning the bottom and running gear…

    and again, if it falls thru next time insist on a sea trial before survey
  9. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2013
    Messages:
    918
    Location:
    Chesapeake Bay, USA
    Yeah, there IS that...

    -Chris
  10. Cpt Sous-Leau

    Cpt Sous-Leau Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2024
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    USA, Earth
    Of course, above the waterline. No one has been under this boat, and it clearly hasn't been hauled in years. Who knows what we'll find living on the bottom.

    I'm not sure I know what 'water soaked hull' means. Has not been weighed, and doubt it's 10k over.The surveyor found zero delam everywhere above the waterline, and in all spaces inside the lower hull. He's got that little plastic hammer 'tap, tap, tap' every where.
    the boat is actually sitting a little high in the water. It's maybe an inch or so above the bottom paint, and both of the exh pipes are sitting right on the bottom of the pipe. I can see exh water flowing out easily, so it's not riding low at all. It's also the same on both sides, so it's not tipping either.

    The forum doesn't like my image type, so - no pic of the engine floor so clean I could eat off it. Sorry. Believe me or don't.

    If I have to reject this boat, I think I'm going to give up. A yacht is supposed to be fun to buy, and fun to use. So far, my 38 Sea Ray has been a complete hassle, and buying the bigger boat has turned into drudgery. I don't need the aggravation in my retirement. I'll go buy a nice Aerostar 600P. No trouble getting one of those to perform.
  11. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,166
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale
    Water soaked means the outer layer of fiberglass has been breached and the balsa core
    Has been soaked with sea water adding tons of weight to the displacement.
    Some boats have foam core, or no core, ask the broker or the builder what this boat have.
    It is cheaper to raise the waterline than to put a new bottom on the boat.
    My scenario is the worst case scenario, hopefully this tub only has dirty props.
    Good luck..
  12. Cpt Sous-Leau

    Cpt Sous-Leau Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2024
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    USA, Earth
    The exh stacks are barely above the water line. If this boat were soaked, the stacks would be submerged. I've been on other 53 and 56 hulls, and this boat is riding as high, or higher than all the others. Surveyor says no balsa on the Voyager hulls anywhere. I don't know if there's anything inside the stringers, or other spaces, but there's no water soaked anywhere.
  13. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,166
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale
    Good news then, but why is she not performing…? o_O
  14. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,610
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Most likely because of a dirty bottom and running gear. That s all it takes…

    where is the boat btw? Down south?
    cognac likes this.
  15. Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,166
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale
    Yes of course, but this one is Pristine, obviously the owner maintained it below the waterline as well as above the waterline..

    OP: Find a local diver, pay him good to spend 10 minutes under water with a camera and shoot a few pics: If the bottom and running gear is full of growth, that explains the lack of performance and will also explain the corrosion for lack of zincs.
  16. Cpt Sous-Leau

    Cpt Sous-Leau Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2024
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    USA, Earth
    I'm a diver. I also have underwater lights and a camera. At this point, it's on the broker. I just had a back and forth email with the broker. I'm paying for the quick haul, and his service dept is going to pick up the bill for the cleaning. Usually a quick haul is up to 20 min. I would bet they are going to spend hours on the lift. I advised him it would be a good idea to have a guy with a coarse buffer there to get the props sorted out. Back centuries ago I used to polish the props on my B-III every spring, and had very good luck with perf on a 27' cuddy with a bone stock 7.4 Merc putting out around 310HP. He's on notice if it doesn't get up and go, I'm done and want my check back.

    Hoping for Wed, but waiting to hear on their lift access.
  17. Cpt Sous-Leau

    Cpt Sous-Leau Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2024
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    USA, Earth
    Sigh,,, just another day of crap trying to buy a boat. (hehe, I just mis-typed and used 'goat'; maybe should have left it like that)

    Our rented captain was all set for Thursday. Got a call just now from the broker, the captain's son was killed in a MC collision yesterday, so he's out, and we're not moving the boat without him. Also, the fuel filters are in, but they can't replace without a special tool. I was about to tell the broker he qualifies as a 'special tool', but I held my peace. Sad about the captain family, I'm sure they're having a tough time of it.

    We're delayed until next week, maybe tue, maybe not.
  18. abfish

    abfish New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2020
    Messages:
    38
    Location:
    Morehead City
    Good luck to you, Cpt. I understand your frustration.
  19. Cpt Sous-Leau

    Cpt Sous-Leau Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2024
    Messages:
    92
    Location:
    USA, Earth
    Amended contract for acceptance was today July 4 by 5PM. The boat is not ready for the haul out, or sea trial(2nd one). Broker has missed the deadline in about 30 minutes. Also, no new extension. I think the deal is now dead. Maybe a good thing, I don't know if it will perform or not. Such a screwed up process.
  20. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2012
    Messages:
    1,534
    Location:
    Ketchikan, Alaska
    Bummer you spent some time and $$ but perhaps the outcome is best vs. buying a problem.