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Burger 80 - Work in Progress

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by PPD, Aug 24, 2023.

  1. PPD

    PPD Member

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    Heat - as recommended by Flagship, they will add the electric heat element into the system with the reverse cycle. I’m still researching my options for a diesel fired system for the heating side though. More efficient, I would think.

    We are clearing out the old cruisair units and making room in the ER now for the chillers. Question for those of you who have had them installed - how did you get them down into the ER? The cut sheets on these things list them at 432 lbs. dimensionally they will make it down there, but moving that kind of weight down to the ER has stumped.
  2. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I used an articulated ladder and 2x4s to make ramps to slide my chillers in place. Quite a job :)
  3. classic

    classic Member

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    Can't you lift them down the engine room hatches in the salon I am not familiar with the layout
  4. PPD

    PPD Member

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    There are no hatches down into the engine room. We have to go down forward companionway/staircase into the crew quarters and then through the engine room door.

    Flagship just got back to me and confirmed that the units way about 200 pounds. I guess the 432 pound note was incorrect on their drawings.

    We can manage 200 pounds getting 200 pounds down there. It will just take a little bit of rigging a small train fall and some dollies.
    chesapeake46 likes this.
  5. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I thought the 400lbs was high… As I said easy to rig some 2x4s, saw horses etc
  6. PPD

    PPD Member

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    Yeah, that’s why I emailed Steve and asked him. A 400 lb chiller that’s only 16”x24”x27” would have to be made of lead.
  7. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    Or conduit pieces as rollers.
  8. PPD

    PPD Member

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    So I'm making progress clearing out the old junk in the engine room. I've got the cruisairs ripped out, pulling out old pumps, getting to the water heater tomorrow and the old, non-functioning air compressor. Got the washer dryer out last week. Pulling refrigerant and AC water piping out along the way.

    After working in there yesterday I started thinking about cruising the boat (after all, the daydreaming is what keeps me going), and I envisioned sitting on the hook, with the generator(s) off, and it occurred to me that the freshwater pumps and the vacuflush are all on AC power.

    What's the best solution to this little problem? Battery bank and inverter? I'm replacing the freshwater pumps anyways - do I change one out with AC voltage, and one with DC? The vacuflush requires the Air compressor to create the vacuum.

    As always, I welcome all your expertise.

    Hoping to get everything else stripped out of the ER next week, then set up for repainting in there.
  9. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Great progress.

    for fresh water, a good solution is to have an AC pump and a DC back up. Flip the valves and breaker and you re in business

    I had never heard of VF heads using compressed air to create a vacuum… can’t understand how that would work. Maybe time to upgrade the heads? I swapped from VF to Raritan élégance, big improvement! The best are the headhunters which use water pressure to flush. But they re expensive, require minimum 60PSI and gravity drain to the tank.
  10. cnvsback

    cnvsback Member

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    Sounds like if your heads are using compressed air it is quite possibly a Microphor system not vac u flush. Microphor toilets are very sensitive to any moisture(amogst other things) in the air supply circuit so be sure the filter dryer is maintained / operational.

    Agree with Pascal on the AC and DC pumps. Good redundancies.

    As far as running the air compressor on the hook what is the HP rating of the motor ?
  11. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Air compressor or vacuum generating pump?

    I remember working on an old alloy Roamer. She had a DCv air compressor that worked better than its ACv replacement.
    Actually, re-installed it. DCv for the air horns to stay nostalgic and the ACv compressor for the air tools.

    I have shopped for later DCv air horn compressors but never found anything close to this ole puppy.
    I wonder if the ole Burgers had such a compressor.
    At least something to look for if you are looking for a DCv air compressor.

    DCv vacuum generator needed, I recommend keeping with the original VF poo pump.
  12. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    BTW, how bad was your old AC equipment? All trashed yet?
    I'm shopping for R22 evap stations.
  13. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    Recent VF systems use a DC vacuum generator to create vacuum. Maybe yours does, too, but seems complicated by needing an AC-powered water supply?

    AC water pump seems odd, to me, but two pumps (as Pascal suggests), switching yours to a DC unit, or powering yours from an inverter could all work. The least amount of effort might be the inverter thing... IF you'd probably want to use an inverter for other stuff too. That'd mean an inverter (or inverter/charger) installation and maybe some battery improvement, but you wouldn't have to mess with the water pump, VF, etc.

    -Chris
  14. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    I transitioned from the original VF system to Raritan Elegance as well. Great decision. The old log books aboard were full of maintenance notes regarding issues with the VF.

    Note on the black system. I went to the location of the gravity inlet to the black tank and installed a small poly tank, creating a lift station. It's likely a 5 to 7 gallon tank with Dometic floats and switch added. Keeps the black out of the metal hull where sediment is tomorrow's battery conduit. Starboard side I added a sanitation processing system to act as the holding tank as to avoid the interaction between waste and hull metal. I did a similar install within the confines of the grey tank, too. That was an easy retro-fit. In every bilge compartment is a pickup for a very nice dry bilge system to keep bilges bone dry when she's idle. A metal boat needs you to be on and maintain a first name basis with every bilge section of the vessel.

    Good time to address while she's a bit barren and open.
  15. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Yes, on his layout (more or less) we used 2x4's and set the units on a piece of formica-laminated ply from Depot that we cut to size. Mica-down, and controlled by a long strap, it was an easy process.

    The generators, they went and came through a hole in the forward bilge hull. We used aluminum scrap to tac-weld a raceway for those. Felt very Egyptian through that setup and procedure. Gave me a good excuse to update the forward bilge plating where some pitting existed from years of neglect. Hargrave didn't provide us with hatches. The forward cabin deck hatch was the original conceptual access point. That just seemed like it would have been a gymnastic event with the generators, unnecessary for the chillers.

    In many ways a metal boat allows far more creativity in this regard as compared to glass.
  16. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

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    Given all the refit and upgrades you are doing I strongly recommend you ditch the VF heads and go with the Raritan or similar as Pascal mentioned. I yanked out all my VF stuff and installed two Raratin Elegance units. One of the best upgrades I have done. I significantly reduced the hoses, wires and components and the heads work great. I also went with the option of having the fresh water/seawater switch. When out on multi day trips I switch over to seawater and it’s amazing how much fresh water is saved. I rarely have to run my Watermaker anymore. When back at the slip I just push a button and back on fresh water.
  17. PPD

    PPD Member

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    Ok, a lot to catch up on regarding the feedback you all have given me. So the heads are definitely on an AC powered Air Compressor vacuum generator. Maybe it's not a Vacuflush system. Here are some photos of it all. The Air Compressor also supplies the air horns and compressed air for tools.

    Raritan Elegance - I have one on my 40 footer and it usually has problems each year of some kind. This past year the yard was supposed to winterize it. Well, they said they did but when I got on the boat for the first time, it was cracked. The kids have an innate ability to clog the thing a few times a year, too. ER Port 1.jpg ER Port 1.jpg ER Port 2.jpg Vacuflush 1.jpg ER STBD 1.jpg

    Freshwater pumps - I'll do an AC and a DC. That makes complete sense.

    Cruisairs - They are all removed, and they were all corroded pieces of junk. Some came out whole, some did not.

    Getting the new chillers and boiler in - I'll be employing the 2x4 ramps and a nice electric hoist that will work perfect for getting them down the companion way stairs and then up into place in the ER.

    Removed the old Galley Maid Water Maker along with several pumps - AC Bilge pump (motor was seized), WaterMaker pump - the thruhull closed easily and tight, which was nice.
  18. PPD

    PPD Member

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    It was all junk. Heavily corroded. 5 of them came out in pieces/dust.
  19. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

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    You can't blame the head itself for poor winterization. If you have people clogging a macerating toilet I can't imagine what they would do to a vacuflush system or anything similar.
  20. classic

    classic Member

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    Wow big project but a fun one for sure
    before you place things into place give it some paint behind the Equpment then when you want to do the rest of the ER you should be set .

    Good Luck