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Rebuild or Replace Windlass

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by Shay, Dec 13, 2023.

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  1. Shay, Dec 13, 2023
    #1
    Shay

    Shay Guest

    Hi Everyone!

    I'm a first time boat owner and I bought a 1981 70' Hatteras fixer upper. I've been making a lot of progress on the repairs, but I'm stuck on the windlass situation.

    I have a 32volt Ideal Windlass and it's beat to crap and ugly and the gears are chewed up. Motor & switches work and the gearbox is ok- not rusted through. I got a quote for about 6500.00 to replace the whole gear box and reinstall it, but it will still be ugly. Maybe there is someone that can do the gear repair for a more reasonable price and then I can swing the rechroming to make it pretty? I'm open to ideas!

    I am also looking at replacing it with a new Maxwell or Lofrans, but new ones are 24 volts. Has anyone done this and if so, how? I have gotten a lot of feed back with pros and cons on my youtube channel and someone pointed out that I should ask in the forums here and on Sam's marine. If you want to see the video just go to youtube and search the boat name, Shay la Vie. Video name is Progress Report.. I posted it yesterday.

    I have 3/8'' chain and 3/4'' rope and an 80lbs anchor.

    I really want to get this right as I plan on being on the hook a lot when I get her cruising. Mainly Bahamas, Keys and East Coast during hurricane season 2024.

    All information is appreciated as this is a big ticket item and I want to make sure I make the best decision possible. =-)

    Cheers!
    Shay

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  2. Pascal, Dec 13, 2023
    #2
    Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I have a similar Galley Maid on my 53 which I had converted to 24 volts when I repowered the boat. Galley Maid also rebuilt the gearbox. It was a lot less than $6500 even with the new 24 v motor

    The biggest issue with installing a modern windlass on these boats isn’t the voltage. That’s easy, you can just install a couple of 24 v batteries and small charger to power the windlass, at the bow which will reduce voltage drop due to long wire run

    the real problem is the shaft length. Because classic hatters have a raised pulpit and the windlass is installed on top of the pulpit, you need a MUCH longer shaft which most windlass manufacturers don’t provide. You could have a machine shop make one but you have issues with the shaft bending due to it’s longer length.
    Capt Ralph likes this.
  3. MBevins, Dec 13, 2023
    #3
    MBevins

    MBevins Senior Member

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    Did you get a quote from Ideal? They rebuilt mine a couple of years ago. The rebuild includes re-chroming, my circa 1987 unit came back like a brand new unit. The best part, I just bolted it back in place with no mods to anything.
    Capt Ralph likes this.
  4. Shay, Dec 14, 2023
    #4
    Shay

    Shay Guest

    The quote is from Ideal... 4200 for gear box, another 200 for something else and then 2000.00 to rechrome it. Plus the labor to put it back in, so about 6500 for it to be ugly, 8500+ to make it pretty. I'm curious what they charged you?

    AND the rigger that took it out said I needed to replace the spacer, so I spent 4 or 5 hours with my general guy chipping it out. After we'd started I was kind of pissed because honestly, it wasn't that bad. It had a little rot around the hole for the shaft, and I mean a little, so we could have injected epoxy and sanded it and it would have lasted another 50 years. It was layered with 5200 and screws facing down, so it was a major pain to get out lol

    So, no spacer left. =-(
  5. MBevins, Dec 14, 2023
    #5
    MBevins

    MBevins Senior Member

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    I had mine done about 5 years ago, so before they were purchased, I was just under $3K including chrome and adding a wildcat.
    Sounds like you're getting the "we need to pay for this company" surcharge.

    That being said, how much to buy new and modify the deck to suit? Versus plug and play with Ideal unit?

    Just a numbers game now.
  6. Shay, Dec 14, 2023
    #6
    Shay

    Shay Guest

    PS
    I spoke with Maxwell yesterday afternoon and they have a shaft long enough. If it will ever stop raining, I can pull the tape and measure, but off memory, it's right at 3" now, give or take. They make a 5" bar, so he said that would be good for this one as it will give me more room to shim, etc. Maxwell says the same, 2 12 volt batteries and then put a solenoid in so the switches can work still. I have someone coming this weekend to look and see if I can do that with my existing solenoid box. There's plenty of room and one nice thing about the Maxwell is it's stainless, so will always shine up.

    I also talked to Galleymaid. 6500.00 for a whole new one plus labor to install. Almost all stainless, except the peice that pulls the chain. They did not seem inclined to rebuild an Ideal gearbox.

    However, I had someone reach out from Youtube that said they could replace the gears inside the gear box for about 1000.00 and that would leave me room in budget to rechrome. He is a machinist who does this full time and says if he can't fix it, he won't charge for trying. He does work for a big yacht repair company full time doing this, so I think he knows his stuff.

    So, that's where I'm at now. Any other ideas?

    Cheers
    Shay
  7. Shay, Dec 14, 2023
    #7
    Shay

    Shay Guest

    Sorry, Maxwell is roughly 4200 with the extended shaft, plus labor to install.

    Galleymaid new is 6500.00 plus labor to install. it is 32volts

    Ideal is so expensive, so that's why I started looking at other options. If it was 3k, it would be a NO brainer lol
  8. Shay, Dec 14, 2023
    #8
    Shay

    Shay Guest

    I've pulled the footprint for the maxwell, but it's raining non stop lately, so I can't get out there and see how hard it will be to make it fit. Since the spacer is gone, I think it's just a matter of filling the old holes in the fiberglass and redrilling new ones to suit the new windlass, but I'll know more this weekend.
  9. MBevins, Dec 14, 2023
    #9
    MBevins

    MBevins Senior Member

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    Yes that's why I did mine.
    I'd have a conversation with the you tube dude, quite honestly there's not a lot to these things.
    If after speaking to him and you're comfortable go that route, he probably has contacts for chrome and motor overhaul. Don't forget the motor is a glorified engine starter. Any starter shop can rebuild those.
  10. Shay, Dec 14, 2023
    #10
    Shay

    Shay Guest

    Motor is fine. Wires, switches, solenoids, and motor are fine. Gears in box were not spaced right and they got chewed up (watch the video on youtube, I don't have pics on this computer) and the topside is beat to hell, but works lol

    I am going to take him the gearbox and let him look, for sure. I am having a blast with the youtube thing. So many people sending good info and the encouragement to keep going is nice. I'm at that point where the boat is a total wreck... and the guy I hired was really good at the beginning, but lately he's really good at tearing things out and not finishing and/or refusing to finish. ugh.
  11. Shay, Dec 14, 2023
    #11
    Shay

    Shay Guest

    ok. this engine room isn't going to clean itself and I can't put batteries back in place until I do it lol I'll check in later! Thanks for the quick replies and useful info. It's nice to know I'm on the right track!!!
  12. bernd1972, Dec 16, 2023
    #12
    bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    Welcome here. Wish you all the best for your project. No big project and nasty actually from the first look into your videos, but lots of medium sized tasks and a steep learning curve ahead...:)
  13. Shay, Dec 17, 2023
    #13
    Shay

    Shay Guest

    Yeah, it's so steep, sometimes I feel I'm walking upside down lol But I'm glad to hear you don't think there's anything too big or too nasty. =-) I have a few things to fix on the waste system (replacing hoses and pumps on all four heads), the AC, the windlass and then I think, knock on wood, the rest is all cosmetics now. And nav systems.... not sure what I'll do on that. Some of that old stuff actually does work. AIS, VHF, AP work, but nothing else. I'll be posting videos every week as I make my way through each system.
  14. bernd1972, Dec 17, 2023
    #14
    bernd1972

    bernd1972 Senior Member

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    Concerning navigation it all depends on what you want. If AIS and autopilot word you allready got some of the more expensive stuff. Get yourself a preowned useable chart plotter like a raymarine E125 and a smaller one for the flybridge from Ebay and a new radar that works with that stuff and you have a decent basic setup. The AIS can be hooked up to the chart plotter via NMEA so that´s doable. Of course you can spend a 5-digit-amount on a whole new system with installation, but ask yourself what do you want and need? Shall the autopliot follw a track or do you get along with course keeping and standing watch?
    After all you can still upgrade later as you get experience out there.

    Get the boat operational and liveable and collect experience, that´s the best advice I can give. Ideas for upgrades come with the time and experience, just like the proper judgement what is required and what is gadgets.
    Don´t get fooled by the desire to have all that new fancy stuff. It´ll be expensive enough in the beginning anyway and it´s about to make things happen now before you escalate into a neverending, expensive story.

    And don´t forget to get rid of unused obsolete equipment during the process, keeps the systems understandable and maintaineable.

    Concerning Galley Maid toilet pumps: I still have some of them in the corner, but I´m in Europe so shipping is either expensive of for those with patience. However, you might want to get some more modern stuff anyway, even though that dated stuff for some reason lasts forever. For example those Galley Maid head pumps have a motor that would be suffifinet as a starter motor for a mid-sized car, no surprise all that fails with them is the rubber parts and the solenoid.

    Wish you all the best and keep following your progress... :)
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2023
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  15. Shay, Dec 17, 2023
    #15
    Shay

    Shay Guest

    I am 100% focused on the basics right now and getting all systems back up to par. I was highly encouraged to keep the old galleymaid toilets because they are superior to most of the new ones and will last forever. They are also really nice looking toilets =-)

    On the nav, I'm going to go slow and take my time. I am not going to go crazy on buying every new gadget out there. I'm really interested in how folks are using a tablet that's connected to all systems. I have a lot of research to do, but I am stoked my ap works. The screens are messed up, though, so I may need to look into new screens.
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