We just surveyed an 80' Burger with Naiad 173 stabs on it. Overall the boat was in decent shape. Engines and gennies well maintained, boat sea trialed well. The only surprise we found was the stabilizers. They are in bad shape and need to be replaced. Attached are a couple photos of what we are dealing with. It looks like we would need to drop the fins, replace the head unit/acutators, seals, etc and replace any compromised hull plating at the penetrations. Can anyone give me a ballpark of what to expect for cost? We have the yard and another mechanic working up some numbers, but any information is always helpful. ,
Jeez... Those actuators are in awful conditions indeed, how old is the boat? A few comments, anyhow. 1) regardless of boat age, I have a funny feeling that there's something going on between the fin actuators and the (aluminum, I guess?) hull. Before replacing them, I would ask a knowledgeable technician to check if that installation requires some additional bonding, anodes, whatever. For your reference, I'm attaching a photo of the same actuators in my previous boat, which was 21 years old when I sold her, and never needed anything at all, but they were installed on a wooden hull. 2) as far as can be said just by looking at your photo, the main unit seems in pretty good shape, with no leaks. In your boots, I would paint all the hose connectors, as it seems to have been already done on the two in top left side, near the gyroscope unit. But that's easy peasy. 3) you don't show the pump, which must be attached to one of the engines (either belt driven or via PTO). Check if that is also in comparably good shape! Lastly, before going for a like for like actuators replacement, you might wish to consider this: According to Naiad application guidelines, the 170 series can handle fin size from 3 to 6 sqft. But even assuming that you had the larger fins, it's a system (pump+main unit+fin actuators) recommended for boats in the 32 to 50 feet size range, and up to 35 max tonnage. For comparison, in my old boat I also had 6 sqft fins, but the equipment driving them was one size up (200 series), and she was a 53 footer. In other words, it seems to me that your equipment is badly undersized for an 80 footer. Again, according to Naiad application guidelines, a rather heavy 80 footer is borderline between the 250 and the 300 series (which can handle up to 9 and 12 sqft fins respectively). All that said, if you should consider replacing everything rather than just the actuators, I'd definitely go for a more modern system, capable also of zero speed stabilization. Let us know how you will get on with the refitting, I for one would be curious to hear more - also about the rest of the boat BTW, not just the stabs!
Agreed on size. I'm 68 feet with 252's and 7 foot fins. By the look of the photo of the rust scale, I'd guess they lost a seal on the shaft at some point and never cleaned it up. There's both an outer and inner seal with bearing between them. I'm fastidious about replacing outer seals every few years. Replace the bearing and inner seals perhaps every 5. I would look at this as an opportunity to upsize the systems a bit as the delta in the investment isn't significant, and I'd guess that the responsiveness of the smaller system leaves something to be desired when things get sloppy. Being somewhat undersized, the armatures may have promoted a seal failure from stress and heat. Who knows..but that's what I think I'm seeing from the decay.
Absolutely. But I'm skeptic that the cost difference vs. replacing just the fin actuators isn't relevant. In fact, I believe that moving up from a 170 series to 250 or 300 requires a replacement of just about everything - i.e. also the main unit and oil pump, on top of the actuators and fins. I wouldn't be surprised if that would even require larger pipes, though they are possibly worth replacing anyhow, depending on age. Now, I'm not up to speed on the current Naiad offer, but at that point I don't think there's anything valuable that shouldn't be replaced. Which in a sense is good news, because it opens up a whole range of possibilities for the replacement, including not only zero speed but also electric systems, which are certainly simpler than hydraulics, and also better in more ways than one.
Agreed. I was going to bring up zero speed as an option, but I didn't want to drift too far from the primary issue. Given the condition of the actuators, I'd feel confident in saying that the hoses must go as well...symbol of the maintenance history here. This is an opportunity to upgrade while replacing.
Given the added length here from the original build, I'd suggest a minimum of 7 foot fin, but I'd aim for 9 square feet.
Hey, Please keep me in mind if upgrading. There is enough there for me to start something in my Bertram. On my swamp budget, All I do is dream of stabilizers.
Sensible suggestion, if we were talking of a 40 feet center console. On a 80' Burger, I wouldn't even consider a stabilizing system whose effectiveness in long ocean swell is close to none. As opposed to fins, that can straighten a listing hull forever, while under way. And there are fin systems which are pretty good at zero speed, either.
In the OP boots, I'd have already started to discuss what looks like a win-win deal. From his viewpoint, fetching some money from the still good components is a nice way to partially offset the cost of an upgrade that his boat probably needs anyway. And for yourself, those 170 series Naiad components are nicely sized for your boat, probably needing to find just a pair of actuators for putting together a fully working system. Which, based on my experience, is as effective as any much more modern fin stabs, if you're happy with underway-only stabilization.
Thanks for the feedback and info everyone. Will definitely look into a larger system, either electric or hydraulic. Seakeeper for this boat is way out of budget, and probably worth more than the boat itself
Don't worry, you're losing nothing by being unable to consider the SK. In boats like yours, fins are waaaaay better. All the best for your refitting, and keep us updated!
Capt Ralph - I will keep you in mind if we get to upgrading the system. We are working up our refit budget on systems (puke) so depending on how bad it looks, we may have no choice but to stick we these.
I don't want to be known as a grave robber, but after storm Ian hit S/W Florida, I started making some calls early to get on some salvage list. I was warned, my calls were already to late. It was amazing, what was already getting chainsawed off/out of the wrecks before what remained was loaded on barges or flat beds and hauled away. Some even before the salvage crews arrived. So, I ask all my new best friends; What ya gonna do with that old stabilizer system?? I'll help pull it out with out chain saws...
No idea of who/when installed those stabs on your boat, and how they performed. But frankly, a 170 series system seems so badly undersized that I'm very skeptical it can be anywhere near as effective as it should. In other words, I appreciate that budget can be a limiting factor (it is for most of us!), but it seems to me that by replacing those actuators you would throw good money after bad. In your boots, I'd rather strip them, fix the hull plating, and put a removable cap on the hole. Whenever you will have a budget for a properly sized system, it would be easy to re-open those shafts holes and use the fins placement, if nothing else. And after all, boats have been around without stabilizers for ages, so you might as well find out that the boat is OK without them...
that is exactly what we are leaning towards right now. Rather than have a couple of holes in the boat for what is effectively a useless stab system, we might as well plug the holes, get the boat up to the northeast, and then do it the right way. Also have a couple of quotes coming to get it done in NW Florida, so if it is cost effective, maybe have it done there before heading north
