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Isolation Transformer

Discussion in 'Electronics' started by tbaxl, Apr 18, 2023.

  1. tbaxl

    tbaxl Member

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    I have put this off as long as possible, but it is time. I have 50amp service so any recommendations as brand and in some reading it seems a portable booster does somewhat the same thing. If the booster is an option I like that as I am fine at my home marina but things are not so rosy at marinas with with GFI pedestals.
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Wards marine electric and Lean Marine both sell them, in Ft. Laud
  3. MBevins

    MBevins Senior Member

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    You have an internal ground fault problem, you need to fix the problem and not cover it up with an IT.
    cleanslate likes this.
  4. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Indeed, fix the problem don’t cover it up. Most of these issues are caused by an appliance or inverter which has N and G connected together
    cleanslate likes this.
  5. tbaxl

    tbaxl Member

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    Agreed on the internal fault. Have spent some coin with marine electrical professionals to no avail. I am at the cover it up point and call it a day. I will say all GFI setups are not the same, some trip and others do not, so it obviously is not me all the time, I just want to enjoy my boat when I am on it in a strange location.
  6. tbaxl

    tbaxl Member

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    Thank you Capt. J for the seller info. One more food for thought in my defense of putting one on board, my understanding is most if all new yacht class boats produced these days leave the factory with and IT on board if for no other reason than just in case.
  7. MBevins

    MBevins Senior Member

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    I can assure you that there's a 95% chance that the problem is with your boat. Very rarely is it the marina.
    You need a qualified MARINE electrician to find the fault, not a residential guy.
  8. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Something not mentioned and not discussed much because it is a sad subject;
    If you have a grounding issue, this IS a safety issue and should not be swept under a rug (transformer).
    You still have a potential safety issue.
    Find it, fix it and sleep well...
    MBevins likes this.
  9. SeaEric

    SeaEric YF Historian

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    I did an overhaul on the AC system aboard my 1966 Hatteras. We combined the twin 30a inlets into a single 50a. All new panels and breakers. We added a Hubbel isolation transformer. I use a portable voltage booster (from Ward's in FLL) deployed as needed. An isolation transformer with built in "smart boost" would be nice, but they are quite pricey.
  10. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    There is not much that needs a boost from a proper dock electric service.
    AND, Nothing is free. You want Volts, that takes Amps.

    W/A =V will not bend.
  11. tbaxl

    tbaxl Member

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    See original post, qualified MARINE electricians have been involved. Some places it has been my boat, others it was the marina with nasty corroded connections.
  12. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I am concerned that you have been reading that drool from das other web site. Just because a few folk agree on a rumor, does not make it correct.
    Here we have techs and engineers.
    We also know the rules and how things really work.
    And of course my favorite, OHMs law. (Post #10)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm's_law


    Corroded connections on the dock will result in low loaded volts. A bad connection will get hotter as more current is pulled thru it.
    As it gets hotter, voltage goes lower, resistance increases, more current tries to flow thru to answer the wattage/load.

    A long dock with you on the far end will emulate a bad connect also.
    That long cable run will get warm and turn into a long (long) resistor as above also.

    Adding a boost transformer, will draw even more current thru the bad connection (or long cable) to generate a taller voltage. (Post #10).
    At some time, something will burn up. Either that bad connect or an option during under wattage.

    The interesting thought, this will not generate a GFI issue. Any (fault) current on the green wire causes this.
    Fault current is from your boat.

    Are these supposed qualified sparkies looking for fault current OR low ACv issues?
    These are two different issues.



    Further things to consider.

    Many folk are freaking out over 208Vac service.
    Later marinas are using 3 phase commercial service to the docks. A Wye transformer reduces this service to usable 30 & 50 Amp services.
    There is nothing wrong with 208Vac. It does provide plenty of current and answers the Wattage requirements well.
    Some Air units may show a low power alarm, easily corrected in the panels set-up options.
    The use of a boost transformer here may reduce the available current to the wattage/load. (Post #10).

    Early, real early dock service GFI breakers were later deemed to sensitive.
    Later GFI service breakers were designed just a bit less sensitive and reduced many nuisance trips.
    If your having intermittent GFI dock service pops, maybe investigate the specs and data codes on the suspect breaker.

    Are you having any under water current leaks?
    Here lies the answer to a qualified marine sparkie.
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2023
    MBevins likes this.
  13. tbaxl

    tbaxl Member

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    Marine tech have looked up and down for a fault, boosting is not the problem, I mentioned a boost unit and probably should not have. Again the tech have checking everything twice. My thought, it is most likely the microwave, refrigerators, or something non marine on a boat, possibly the LED overhead lights, they sure can mess with an automobile. Point is, I am fine at a non GFI marina and my divers are not complaining about current in the water, and they certainly do know its there. I do not want a IT they are big in stature and I have other items I would rather spend my money on, but if I want to visit any electrically upgraded marine, I may or may not have an issue.
  14. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    look, it’s not rocket science. Physically disconnect every non marine appliance (stove, washer/dryer, fridge, freezer, ice maker etc. that means not just pull the breaker which will not disconnect the N, but physically pull the plug or cut the hard wired wires. Re connect them one by one till it trips.
  15. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

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    Recommend you get this figured out or use an IT as a last resort. Reason being is more and more marinas are installing the GFI's. In fact, it is now code in nearly all areas so any time a marina does any changes or retrofits they are required to come up to current code which is GFI's.
    tbaxl likes this.
  16. tbaxl

    tbaxl Member

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    Exactly why I asked this question, it is about to be an issue and there are some very smart captains on this forum. Pascal, thank you for the advise, but I have already done that in Marathon where it was a BIG issue and was lucky to find a different marina with the old style pedestal. I have thrown a stupid amount of money at this, most likely there is a hidden screw somewhere causing this. I have a three month trip planned for the Bahamas fall of 2024, I have time but I have to get this sorted out. I will say it again, I do not want and IT, but time is wastin, in the end it may be my only option. Is there anything that is portable and could sit at the post and do the IT thing? Do not need it all the time but do need is sometimes.
  17. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    You may have spend a lot of money but you don’t know whether these “professionals” did it right. Did they physically disconnect all your appliances and reconnect them one by one? Washer. Drier. Stove. Oven. Fridge. Ice maker(s). Freezer. Dehumidifier. Water heater.

    do you have a non marine inverter?

    is the generator (which bonds N to G) connected with a switch which disconnects the N when using shore power?

    have they checked that there isn’t a connection inside the panel between the G and N busses

    all easy things to check and 99% chance the problem is one of the above
  18. tbaxl

    tbaxl Member

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    They did as have I, but I like your thought process. I will add the inverter is intriguing, all have had there hands on it with no questions but I will look into it just to be sure. I looked it over with the assumption it is marine grade, can not remember the manufacturer right now.
  19. vacser

    vacser New Member

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    To answer one of your questions, there is nothing portable. A 50 amp 15kva IT weighs 170 lbs. I installed one.
  20. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    The inverter is critical. Marine inverters have relays that only bond N to G when in inverter mode. RV or off the grid inverter bond N to G at all times and will trip GFCIs