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The Haves and The Have-Yachts...

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by YachtForums, Jul 19, 2022.

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  1. Mortenti, Jul 21, 2022
    #21
    Mortenti

    Mortenti Guest

    I found it a very entertaining, and well written story.
  2. mapism, Jul 21, 2022
    #22
    mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    As well as I said that you seemed to associate my comments to those articles. :)
  3. mapism, Jul 21, 2022
    #23
    mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    In other words, the old "ends justify the means" principle.
    Are you a Macchiavelli fan, possibly? :D
  4. leeky, Jul 21, 2022
    #24
    leeky

    leeky Senior Member

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    I'm in agreement with your take on capitalism versus socialism. However, I don't think that the capitalism rewards the smart and unscrupulous; I think capitalism rewards the lucky and unscrupulous.

    I can't think of any super-rich person that I would say earned their money because of superior brain power. They were just at the right place at the right time as opposed to their equals who were not. That's the unfairness of capitalism.
  5. bobhorn, Jul 21, 2022
    #25
    bobhorn

    bobhorn Member

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    >>>I can't think of any super-rich person that I would say earned their money because of superior brain power. They were just at the right place at the right time as opposed to their equals who were not. That's the unfairness of capitalism.<<<

    FWIW, my thoughts exactly. Bill Gates getting a contract for a word processor from IBM, Zuckerberg playing around with some silly program in college, Bezos selling books on line, etc. Of course they grabbed the bull by the horns and took off. But the start was more luck than anything else.
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  6. mapism, Jul 21, 2022
    #26
    mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Well, luck/randomness is indeed a fact of life.
    According to many researcher, it's the most relevant single factor behind the fact that some persons develop a form of cancer and others don't.
    There's also the old (albeit never factually confirmed, AFAIK) story about Napoleon asking whether an officer was lucky, before promoting him.
    And it's hard to deny that also the folks that we are debating had their fair share of luck, with randomness playing a role in their success.

    All that said, IMHO the importance of luck is overrated.
    Firstly, luck alone would have never been enough to bring Gates etc. where they are.
    Secondly, focusing on the luck component in the background of these folks strikes of jealousy towards them and their immense wealth - and that's a sentiment I don't share.
    Lastly, while in principle I agree that rewarding luck is unfair (by definition, so to speak), I'm not sure this can only be said of capitalism.
    I mean, if given a choice I would prefer to be lucky rather than not, regardless of the Country I live in and its governing system...!
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2022
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  7. leeky, Jul 21, 2022
    #27
    leeky

    leeky Senior Member

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    I believe that luck alone gave Gates the chance to capitalize on his abilities, abilities which many others had at the time. They just didn't have the luck, or opportunity if you will.
    Just because you downplay "the luck component" doesn't make those who believe in its importance jealous of the wealthy. Denigrating others is a lame way of debating. You're showing traits of an American politician.
  8. Capt Ralph, Jul 21, 2022
    #28
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Guys, I was there when IBM and the company I worked for (DEC) finally recognized an intelligent work station was the future to unload main-frams from multi user inter-rups and performance loss.
    Digital Research (CPM) and this pimple faced kid (DOS) were the work station leads.
    The end results was how a processors memory was used. Extended or expanded.
    Gates extended memory proved later to be the path.
    Arguments still continue 40 + years later.
    I, at the time believed in expanded memory.

    I am way past this post but I believe at the time. Luck was a distant thought, thinking out side of that then small box, research, lots of work and timing was a key for Bill Gates (& company?).
    Gates has turned into a strange (different) identity of late but his hard work does need to be recognized as hard work and cutting edge at the time.
    I would luv to raspberry him now days but have to recognize his work back then.

    His capitalist moves since then have expanded well.
    ,rc
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2022
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  9. mapism, Jul 22, 2022
    #29
    mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Guilty conscience, leeky? Why do you read my comment as a denigration?
    Jealousy is another fact of life - at least as much as luck, if not more.
    There are other things I'm jealous of myself, someone else's success just ain't one of them.

    Ref. the similarity you're talking about, I guess you actually meant "of all American politicians", didn't you?
    I take that as a compliment, anyhow.
    After all, you guys voted for them, so they must be competent and reliable persons.
    Or aren't they...? :D
  10. mapism, Jul 22, 2022
    #30
    mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Sorry MYlover, for some reason I previously missed this post of yours.
    Just to answer your question, yep, Italian is indeed my mother language.
    And I wholeheartedly agree with your thoughts on written communication, FWIW.
    Give me a shout if and when you should be around here, I'd be happy to expand the debate in person.
    And thanks to you for appreciating my train of thought, regardless of the extent to which we agree on this subject.
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  11. leeky, Jul 22, 2022
    #31
    leeky

    leeky Senior Member

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    Because it is a denigration and you know it; your "guilty conscience" question proves you know.
    No, I meant exactly what I said. I used the singular "an American politician" because you are just one person, i.e., singular. It's a grammar thing.

    What I was referring to about an American politician that you take as a compliment is their tendency to try to discredit an opponent in a debate when their own argument is weak. Denigration is a favorite tool.

    You've accused me of having jealousy (you should have used "envy," but maybe your translation software is limited) that affects my ability to focus, of having a guilty conscience that proves that I'm jealous (envious), and that I meant "all American politicians" when I didn't. If you want to be good at discrediting someone, you'll have to use something that you can prove. Otherwise, it's just a distraction.

    I maintain that luck is much more important when trying to achieve wealth than smartness is. There's just not enough difference in the intelligence of everyone on earth to explain the haves and the have-yachts.
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