Another case of Italian boats impracticality

The European manufacturers took over the design of boats back in the 1990's with the useless swept back windshields that gather weather and reflect the dash and sleek lines that look pretty at the cost of interior space. We went for it so why would they take advice from us now? People today want more speed and a look that appeals to the wife at the boat show. Function takes a distant 3rd place. Do you happen to have a pic of this situation?

Boy would you love a story I have about my wife taking pics of Billy Joel.
But the boat looks so pretty. You wouldn't want to mess with that for something so mundane as safety.

Pascal, if there is a prize for the sweeping generalization of the year, you're off to a great start.

You declare that you've always been ranting against European boats.
Then you take one from what is possibly the most glamour-oriented builder of the whole planet, whose clients put practicality somewhere between the 180th and the 190th place in their personal priorities list.
And with these premises, you think it's appropriate to post a thread whose title fingerpoints at all Italian boats?
Seriously?

Let me remind you that we had folks here who claimed that it's appropriate to remove all bow rails from SF boats and/or build them without any, because they can interfere with fishing lines.
By the same token, rather than blaming Riva for not putting any nonstick on the platform edges, why don't you rant against the owner instead?
How hard would it be to buy some nonstick pads from West Marine and put them on those edges, if that's a concern for him/her?

See, I never bought a Riva, and never will.
But in decades of boating, all boats I owned were built in Italy, AND very practical.
With just one remarkable exception of a boat coming from North Carolina, and don't get me started on how practical (NOT!) she was.
Live and let live, I say.

Full disclaimer here...I'm not a captain, only an owner/operator so my experience is limited to me, myself and I.

With that said, I wanted to interject my $0.02 in case there is another me out there that searches the interwebs looking for data while making their purchasing decision.

Saying it's an Italian and/or European thing isn't totally accurate. It's an owner thing. Owner's need to be honest with themselves regarding what the end use of their boats will be. When we were researching the 'big boat', we used the following parameters (just a snippet of the overall list but these are pertinent to this topic):

• Italian/European Design (we have to like how it looks)
• Enclosed bulwarks
• Side boarding doors
• Hydraulic passerelle/tender crane
• Flybridge davit crane
• Stand up engine room (I'm 6'1")

Initially, we were looking in the 60-65' range and we couldn't find anything that checked the boxes we really needed which were the ingress/egress/exterior safety items. With two dogs, aging parents, grand parents, and future children, we needed to reassess everything. So ultimately, we had to go bigger/older. We knew what our current boat didn't offer (larger express cruiser) and what we couldn't compromise on for the next purchase.

Sorry for the long winded reply. For the searchers out there, you can find a adequate size Italian boat with side entry (or 4 in our case) and more US practicality.

Well, get ready to be flamed then, for TWO major reasons:
Firstly, as a non-professional, you obviously know nothing.
Secondly, daring to suggest that an Azimut can be a fine boat suitable for the US needs is akin to a capital sin, around here.

Now, where's my popcorn when I need it?

HAHA! @mapism I struggled for a bit posting that...good thing we're leaving the country in a few hours for a month...hopefully the pitchforks and torches will be too heavy and burn out by the time we return for closing.

In all seriousness, with the amount of research I did prior to deciding on this one, I spent a ton of time reading posts here and it almost deterred me from the brand. I know Azimuts aren't for the majority here but this one checked more boxes for us than other brands.

Nope, I just give the benefit of the doubt to anyone who can spend millions on a boat that he might have earned that money in some other way than drug smuggling.
So, he's likely to be clever enough to not buy anything that doesn't suit his own needs - which might well be different from yours (and also mine).
Oh, and nonskid pads are available also in dark colours, btw.

I can see why, because that's one of their finest boats, congratulations!

Besides, the forum majority doesn't seem to really matter a lot, considering that Azimut have been firmly at the very top ranking of worldwide boatbuilders for years, and not only they still are, but are likely to distance further their competitors in the future.
Also with some non-mainstream boats that are bound to put Nordhavn and the likes to shame, by the way.

That said, I could post dozens of pics of other Italian boats, built from yards totally unknown in the US, with 4 side entries.

"...European builders refuse to adapt their boats for the US market". Wouldn't what sells be the "U.S. market"? Isn't that what capitalism is all about? If the U.S. market didn't want what you and I consider lousy designs they wouldn't buy them, but they do. Face it, the U.S. and world market is what's pretty. Function is for the crew to figure out and deal with. It's the same up and down the choices the American consumers and citizens make every day. We don't demand substance. We only care about pretty.

Well said, NYCAP.
You know, actually I can live with the comments from both Pascal and CJ about side boarding being less considered by European builders, compared to most of the US builders, because that is true, on average.
It's the sweeping generalization in the title that I don't think is appropriate.
The Italian shipbuilding industry can produce stuff which is good enough for the US Navy, fercrissake.
If it's a practical boat that someone wants, they can get it.
Whoever preferred to go for a Riva Domino instead, more than likely knew what he wanted anyway, and who are we to argue?

There's an underlying assumption in your posts that European builders have an obligation to redesign their boats to fit the US market. They have made changes where deemed appropriate and desirable to both markets as upper galleys would be the biggest example. They do offer dual electric systems.

However, it goes further, you can't really compare Riva to any US boat, because there's no US competition. What you're really talking about is sports boats or performance boats. The 88' Riva runs WOT at 40 knots and cruises at 35 knots. No US production boats that do that.

As to ingress and egress, it's not good. Neither is access to bow lines on smaller boats where there's really no way to get to the bow. Locking through the Okeechobee you plan in advance with both fenders and with lines you can handle from the helm. That's also what an owner of an 88' should do is plan in advance. You use the small rail in the inside of the steps. The teak platform is really fairly good about anti-slippage. And, don't dismiss the passarelle and say it can't be used. It can be, just typically wouldn't need to be. We have a 63' Riva with the exact same set up as the 88'. We are careful and we assist people on and off, a lot of hand holding when required. Every owner, every captain, should be aware of the limitations and take necessary precautions. I don't know of a simple way to redesign the boat to make it easier. We've really not found it to be a significant problem but it's something we do take into proper consideration.

Sunseeker, I'd put in a little different area as they are not performance sport boats, with the exception of the new XPS model. We owned a Manhattan 65 and it was, if anything, more difficult than the Riva is. Add to that, it carried a RIB on the platform so limited space more. Now it's plus was a larger platform. It's design and aesthetics, I believe, would have accommodated a side boarding gate. Challenging boarding and un-boarding but we handled it carefully and safely.

Every boat has pluses and minuses and we learn to live with them. There is a large boating market outside the US too and European models already do a lot to accommodate US buyers. I don't see a simple solution on the 88' Riva, nor having used a 63' Riva for 8 years do I see it as a major issue, just a drawback of the design. We had a 67 year old man and 65 year old woman on our 63' on Sunday and both boarded without any problem, but we did assist them in so doing. They thought nothing of it as they've done it many times. As to ladylike, we really don't think of that in boating.

Riva still sells primarily for Mediterranean boaters. Not all that easy to board there either as most do not use the passarelle but simply go from platform to dock and platform to dock on the stern is in some ways more difficult than to side dock. as more of a challenge keeping the distance constant. Still a need for hand holding.

Just Azimut's post sort of confirms my comments too that it's not a matter of European as much as style boat.

Rub rails, I definitely prefer and I'd prefer larger over smaller. Without, I'm not accepting a slip too narrow to allow fenders on entry, but the vast majority of my transient docking is side tie.

I guess the reality is all boats are different and as owners we do adapt to any shortcomings the boats we own have. We also should be very aware of any potential safety issues and address to avoid.

The last boat I captained before retiring was a 1981 56' Hatteras FBMY. I can't think of a more iconic American boat than that. Docking at a floating dock or even a fixed dock at high tide required me to jump down 5' to put lines on the dock and then haul myself back up the 5'. I broke my leg and foot when I slipped stepping onto the swim platform of a 46' Sea Ray Dancer (another very American brand) because the nonskid doesn't go all the way to the edge. Europeans have no lock on the inaccessibility market. As Olderboater pointed out crew or owners should never let a non-boater board without a helping hand.

If I had a dollar for everytime I or one of our friends took an unexpected swim while boarding or off loading our SR480 (without tide swings), I could have afforded something better than an Azimut.

Well, it bears repeating, Azimut in Europe vs. Azimut in the US are two very different matters and the major difference is the service provided by the company, warranty and non-warranty. In the US, it is 100% turned over to Marine Max to administer so they're both the service provider and the overseer with Azimut removed entirely from the process. Historically, Marine Max has not provided good service on them. There are exceptions with some acquired dealers in the NE but even those are subject to Marine Max limitations and they're driven by the dollars coming out of their pockets. I repeatedly have heard Azimut and their service praised in Europe. I also know there are many happy owners in the US but far too many to have had issues and difficulty getting those issues fixed in a reasonable time period.