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Jim Smith 100' Sportfish backing down... a street?

Discussion in 'General Sportfish Discussion' started by YachtForums, Nov 26, 2020.

  1. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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  2. Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    Whew! Beautiful vessel.
  3. Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

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    Like the lighting on the trailer.....
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    109' and yes, Jim Smith is about a mile from the water and always have trucked them to the Hinckley yard I think it is to be launched, also need to get the power company out to remove power wires in order to do so. For the 2-3 yachts they build a year, it seems to work for them and has for decades. Jim Smith also builds a few smaller yachts that don't need all the fan fare which the article doesn't state.
  5. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Do you guys have an idea of how the stern section of the hull is made, and why?
    The detail below from the video in the linked webpage made me curious...
    JShull.jpg
  6. Slimshady

    Slimshady Senior Member

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    I'm thinking that is the underwater exhaust.
  7. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    R U sure? That would be a weird placement.
    In principle, U/W exhausts should be placed more forward, closer to the engines, for two reasons.
    The obvious one is to keep pipes shorter, and the second is a by product: by placing the outlet further forward, hull drag is reduced.
  8. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    It's most likely where the recessed trim tabs will be mounted, obviously once it's off of the trailer.
  9. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Good point, thanks.
    I can see why recessed trim tabs make sense on a SF, to minimize chances of interference with fishing lines.
  10. Slimshady

    Slimshady Senior Member

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    That's where mine are on my sportfish and where are the exhaust ports on the stern? Recessed tabs are directly behind the wheels, not far to port and starboard. Mine don't have openings to the side just facing to the aft but I assume this vessel has 2600 hp mtu. Those engines need to breathe and the fiberglass box under the deck that forms the exhaust would interfere with tabs and rudder if only discharging toward the stern.
  11. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Hang on, are exhaust ports supposed to be on the stern, or underwater?

    Both are wet systems, but very different: exhaust ports on the stern require an internal silencer, while a true underwater exhaust don't.
    Besides, with the first you don't need also an idle bypass, which is necessary with the latter.
    Last but not least, u/w exhausts are placed much more forward, to exploit gas scavenging and create hull aeration at speed, i.e. less drag.

    Now, I know nothing about Jim Smith boats - hence my initial question.
    But the placement which is being debated would be the weirdest I've ever seen for an u/w exhaust, due to the above reasons.
  12. Slimshady

    Slimshady Senior Member

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    Must have small bypass otherwise she'll shake at idle if exhausted underwater ANYWHERE on the vessel. Underwater exhaust is an upgrade for sportfishing boats, it's much quieter and doesn't blow water back in your face while backing down. My new boat has app. 2 x2 box under rear deck that has a cut out thru the hull. Cats can take higher back pressure than mtu. Hence my belief that's the reason they went out the side also. Once launched they can adjust back pressure by slightly enlarging the vertical side of the hole. Like 1/4" makes a big difference. One of the drains at waterline on the jim smith should be the bypass. This is what recessed tabs look like on most new sportfish boat if they didn't use fin style tabs.

    Attached Files:

  13. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I would say that indent is to break up the water coming off the stern to eliminate a vacuum and reduce drag. I would expect it to carry under the bottom to also house the trim tabs (again to reduce drag as well as keep them out of the way).
  14. Slimshady

    Slimshady Senior Member

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    Actually opposite is true. The hull directly behind wheels and rudder is extended to prevent cavitation pitting at high speeds. Laminar flow around all the running gear is important to prevent pitting and additional drag. That little bump is all it takes.

    Attached Files:

  15. NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

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    I suspect that the cutout on the corner, the recessed trim tabs and that extension are all pieces to that puzzle.
  16. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Sportfish don't use underwater exhaust. At least I don't know of any. They come out the stern.

    Jim Smith was a giant pioneer in the speed game on sportfish and leaders in pushing the speed envelope. He invented the cold molded process of using no fasteners in the finished hull to save weight that is still being used today. As well as being the first to use epoxy in building the hull. His first boat was a 1959 35' with a tuna tower with an elevator that did 44 knots. In the 70's he was building 57-59' SF with full tuna towers and only 8v92's at around 700 HP or less and all those boats did just under 50 knots WOT.

    John Vance the current owner of Jim Smith has kept up that tradition since Jim passed away, even though the equipment on SF's has gotten much heavier (ice makers, freezers, watermakers, etc. etc. ) and still an innovator and have built the largest cold molded sportfish in the world and are still extremely fast and efficient for their size and power. Here is an excellent article on the history of fast sportfish and how Monterey(now ACY) and Tribute learned to build boats from Jim Smith.

    https://www.*****************/copy-of-review-86-sapelo

    To give you an idea of how far advanced these guys were. Monterey built in 1989, a 80' Sportfish, fully outfitted for fishing with a tuna tower, and the boat did 48.6 knots with twin diesel engines and shafts.
  17. Slimshady

    Slimshady Senior Member

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    Sportfish do use under water exhaust but they exit under the stern not amidship. Jim smith wasn't the only innovative builder of his day. My parents founded Lydia yachts and built the first boats ever to use kevlar. They built Jim ***** a 60' sportfish with minimum speeds in the contract. My dad sweated that until sea trial day. She did a couple knots more than required and was an awesome vessel. She had the big Detroits also.
    Funny story, Jim loaned my folks a Toyota while the boat was being built. Said he just signed deal to be distributor for SE united states. The car was really not very good and had already started to rust in less than 2 yrs. My father told him so and said you might have made a mistake kn those cars. Jim made that deal work out pretty well himself and he got another nice boat.
  18. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Ahhh, Jim M..... I worked for him for a small period of time in 2003. He seemed like a very nice guy. It's amazing the people you run into. I am familiar with Lydia's and they were built next to the Roosevelt bridge in Stuart. I thought all of the Lydia's were built out of Aluminum? I'll PM you as there was a very big Lydia SF 85'/90' that was super fast that I've heard about, but never got the details on. Some SF use underwater exhaust but it seems more rare.
  19. mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    ...
    As I said, I'm not familiar with Jim Smith boats - and also not much with SFs in general, being based in the Mediterranean, where they are pretty rare. In fact, I've only seen a few from the usual suspects (Hatt, Bertram, Viking).
    So, if you say that this is how Jim Smith boats are built, I can only take your word for it.

    BUT, in general terms it is not correct to say you "must have idle bypass" also when exhaust ports are on the stern.
    In fact, what you REALLY must have in this case is a silencer.
    If you don't fit one, as soon as the boat is planing, the exhaust becomes awfully noisy, regardless of how low the port is placed on the stern.
    Now, since you must use silencers, there's no reason anymore for placing the exhaust port under the w/line, and you can place it just on (or a hair above) the w/line.
    This allows to get rid of bypass, which becomes a solution to a problem that doesn't exist, because there's no meaningful backpressure anymore.

    Different story if the builder decides to exploit the advantages of a proper u/w exhaust, along the sides of the hull bottom. In fact, by doing this, you can get rid of silencers altogether, enjoy exhaust scavenging to help the engine breathing at high rpm/load, and reduce also drag by aerating the bottom, on top of all that.
    But in this case (and ONLY in this case) you must have also a bypass above the w/line, because without it, the engine should deal with a somewhat relevant backpressure, up to the moment when the boat is getting on the plane.

    Anyway, since by now you made me curious, I googled a bit to look for a SF photo where the exhaust is visible, and I found the following, which happens to be of a Jim Smith boat.
    Now, correct me if I'm missing something, but it seems to me that the exhausts are designed exactly as I just said, i.e. on the stern but along the waterline, with no bypass anywhere.

    [​IMG]
  20. Slimshady

    Slimshady Senior Member

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    That is a traditional exhaust as seen on most sportfish boats. Not an underwater exhaust. The very top is above the waterline. So no bypass needed. Still need water box( silencer) to reduce noise and exhaust temp. That design is louder while running, takes up room in engine compartment and will spit seawater at crew and angler while backing down on billfish. While backing down hard the waterline is at covering boards, engine builds back pressure until it burps seawater everywhere.
    So take the boat in photo and bend exhaust pipe down at 90° before exiting transom. That is underwater exhaust for sportfish. You need bypass or boat rumbles pretty bad. Owned two 73' trawlers with ue. One had bypass, one didn't. What a difference!! Since these were less than 20knot boats the exhaust exited at rear bulkhead in engine room about 12' astern of stabilizer fins.
    Can't do midship underwater exhaust on fast sportfish boats that aerated water plays hell on the props and rudder with cavitation pitting. Don't know about other hull shapes and exhaust location.