I just signed onto a crew agency website to be confronted with a $45 charge to register??? I thought this was illegal? I certainly didn't pay it
Early in my career when I was running around all of Ft. Lauderdale begging every yacht I saw for a job, I think I paid $45 to every crew agency there was off of 17th street. I never thought that it was illegal. I would be curious to hear if things changed since then.
Tell them when they place you, they will get the $45. I have never gotten a job from one, but you can judge how good the market is by seeing how many jobs are on their websites. Many of the jobs have been posted for ages. Which ones are free? nas
I think in 15 years I had 2 interviews through a crew agent the rest of I got through pounding the docks. And neither of those interviews got me a job.
I remember paying some fees way back in the beginning of my career. This time around I signed up at 1 or 2 new agencies and was not charged. With the market right now I feel that they need me as much as I need them. In my opinion it can't hurt to sign up with them all, only takes a little time, and the more you keep in touch with them the better your chances.
not even desperate I don't really need a job, but I'm just putting out the feelers to see what is out there. No way am I going to pay just for the privilage. It's like paying for incoming phone calls or for a doctor to hear you cough......... oh they happen here too!!! lol
MYCaptainChris, Illegal? They certainly didn't tell me that when I signed up in Dec 2004 and paid $45 for nothing. No leads, no hits. Can I go back to them and recoup my bucks? I wouldn't mind if they placed me but when I signed up I told them I was more a part-time captain and they said no problem, they'll find something. Yeah, thanks but no thanks. It's not the money but the principle. They're also right down 17th St, west of 1, but I won't mention any names. Capt Tom
I think you guys should look at it this way. These agencies are in it to make money, first and foremost! The amount of time and effort that is needed to process your paperwork, answer all the questions and just keep your file up to date is quite a bit, not to mention the time for checking references. Look at all the people that want to work on boats or be Captains. We all know there are alot of Capt's out there that just got their ticket after running the family boat for a few years and all of a sudden they think they can become a yacht Capt. There are also alot of backpackers and passers thru that think yachting could be fun and want to give it a try. Taking care of all this takes time and money. So for every 1 job they get, they probably have 10-20 candidates. Yes, I know that they get a fee when they place someone, but don't you think you should contribute something? The reasons that you did not get a call back could be as simple as you did not fit job description or there was someone more qualified than you. In my experience you need to work them hard and keep in touch. I am not trying to stick up for them, as I get rubbed the wrong way by there attitude when I am looking for a job as apposed to when I am looking for crew. In the end they are a necessary evil, and I think $45.00 is pretty cheap for the life of your career and if it is, sign up with the free ones, but then I am sure some people will still b***ch about not getting a job form them too. Oh and CaptChris, if you are not serious about a new job, why should they waste thier time and money on trying to place you. PS- I have been at this for 16 years and I have gotten two of my best jobs from crew agencies
ychtcptn, I am the first one to pay for good help, and yes, they should charge a little for administrative services and the such. But after over a year and a half, you would think something would have come up. I don't even get the friendly reminder e-mails to check-in once in a while. If there is no real calling for a part-time captain, and they know that, well then tell me that and I'll look elsewhere. Then maybe you can tell me something, why is it illegal to charge a fee? Is it that they are charging without necessarily giving something in return (there are FTC rules against that I think). Thanks Capt Tom
Agreed. I paid my fee when I was a newbie, and I can understand why they charge it. It helps to serperate the serious candidates from the backpackers who are looking on a lark. I do the same thing when I' reading resumes and looking for STCW Basic Safety Training. While this is valuable knowledge for crew to have, it also helps me decide which candidates are serious enough about the industry to shell out $1000 for the classes. PS- I also try to foster those crew agency relationships so that they give me the best candidates when I am the one looking for crew. Chris- your career is an open book on this forum. Sorry to hear that things have gotten that bad with your boss.
I did not realize that it was illegal to charge a fee to help someone find a job. Are you not paying for a service? I do know that with the agencies in the gulf they charge you a portion of the salary once you get a job. Do you think this is better? $45.00 sounds pretty cheap at the chance for a job. I would like to hear more background info on this fee being illegal.
The ones charging the fee receive a percentage of salary too. I never heard that it was illegal to charge the $45 either. nas
My View Hi all when I start my crewing business here in germany ( now in Spain ) early 1997 I learned that it was illegal to charge a fee from people who are looking for work. I think it is ok to charge a small fee to help people arranging the papers and create a good looking CV. Later I learned that there are so many Agencys who charge a fee for every CV they put in the databases and many crew did not hear anything from them for years but got always informations that the first year of registration runs out and they should pay again. Today I say : Be carefull to pay money for nothing ! Okay it is right that checking CVs and references is a lot of work but if you are able to place crew with the right contacts in the market the money is not a problem. Today we have the problem that we run out of qualified crew especially in the engine department and every crewing agency should be lucky when a good C/E or 2nd Eng wants to send his CV and did not charge a penny for sending it. Alex
I'd agree with Crewagency - no reputable crew agency should be charging "fees" to prospective crew...that is the "industry standard" today! As for the legality of charging fees, well I guess that every country is different and what is verbotten in one place may be quite acceptable somewhere else. And yachting is an international industry... But it does remind me of an agency I ran across about 20 years ago which specialised in the sale and rental of apartments and houses in France. Who spent a lot on advertising really great deals, at least 25-30% below what anyone else was offering. Unfortunetly, these amazing offers were reserved for those that joined their special club for a seemingly modest fee. Somewhat disconcertingly, those who coughed up their membership which would allow them priveledged access to the best deals were always being met with "we're so sorry, that apartment has already been let", or "the seller was desperate and took the 1st offer" blah blah blah...in fact, you were always just too late! But I digress, this is a yachting forum... What might be more interesting than discussing a useless $50 paid to an unscrupulous crew agency is how do modern crew agencies get around all the national legislation surrounding the employment (payment of social security contributions, pensions etc.) with particular emphasis of EU seafarers (on yachts)...?!
I think some clarification needs to be made. There is a difference between the yacht crew agencies and the commercial crew agencies. The yacht crew agencies are just providing a service where they get a small fee from you and a fee from the employer, usually based on the salary. The commercial agencies act more like an employer, as you are employed by them and they pay you taking a percentage of your salary for the life of the contract and receive a fee from the employer. There is a big difference between being paid a fee to be placed or being paid for employment under contract. This has become a good thread, I think it has become informative and professionaly replied to. Hopefully more agencies will respond with there side of the story.
Crew Agency Yes ychtcpt you are right. But the result is still the same. We also act as a commercial agency but also did not charge a fee to crew. Our commercial office provides also the full trainings to our crew from the beginning (stcw ) up to Master certificates in our own training schools in Manila and Cyprus. Sure to use this free services you have to sail for some years under our contracts but the basic wages are always fixed for our crew and all other expenses like insurance, fees etc will only be charged to the owners. And just want to mention that also after the first contract 90 % of our crew stay with us and that is very good.
One could only concur, I did say that yachting was an international industry...?! Just where do the engagements (and liabilities) of crew agencies begin and end when it comes to yachts? Does it depend on whether the client is a commercially registered yacht or a private yacht, and does the size matter? If the crewing agency or management company pay the crew wages, as opposed to the crew being paid directly aboard by the owner have any significance? "Yachts which move about a lot, and those that don't"... Presumably, the simple virtue of a yacht never being "within one jurisdiction for long enough" plays a part in resolving many of these issues officially? Still, in this day and age, when all sensible yacht crew should be vigilant as to the importance of ensuring that provisions are made for regular contributions to private or governmental pension plans (ya don't see many 50 year old+ deck hands or stewardesses out there... ), just how and where do "professional crewing agencies" see themselves?! An example I'd like to introduce is that of a 44 metre "Saudi-owned" Cayman Islands registered yacht with a permanent berth here in the south of France which is managed by the French office of a Greek yacht management company: 1) The yacht is not VAT-paid, hence under current regulations, spends at least 10-14 days outside of EU-waters every year in order to maintain the "temporary-importation" status. The other 10 months of the year (it sees about 1 month of use each year) it is at its permanent berth. 2) Of the permanent crew, just 2, the captain and engineer, are "declared" to the French social security, meaning that the management company pay the (40% +) employer's s.s. contributions and from whose salaries are automatically deducted the employee's s.s. contributions (about 22%). The rest of the permanent crew, which include a French 1st mate, Spanish chef and steward and Romanian 2nd engineer remain invisible. But just the French engineer and 1st mate reside ashore, the other crew live aboard when the yacht is here in France. In summertime, the permanent crew are supplemented by Filipino deckhands and interior personnel, some of whom are also employed at the owner's villa in Cannes. This sort of situation is apparently tolerated by the French maritime authorities. Though in every single case that an "undeclared" crew member (regardless of nationality) has made an official complaint against their employer in a local court to my knowledge, the courts have unreservedly condemned the practice and found in favour of the employee, resulting in the employer being made to pay up all the back-dated social security charges (including the employee's s.s. charges which should have been deducted before being paid) and the employee being awarded damages to compensate for severance pay and/or breach of contract etc. I guess that professional (yacht) crewing agencies have it all figured out though...or do they?!
Social contributions Yes Airship, good statement. Normally when you live in a country for more than 183 days a year you have to pay income tax and local contributions. Less than 183 days you are also able to pay this in your home country. So a crew rotation 6on 6 off is maybe a solution. But I also think that this has nothing to do with the responsibilitys of YACHT Crewing Agencys. We got a request for new Crew and we provide CVs with the right candidates. Sometimes we also got information about the travelling plans but mostly not. Also most of the Crew is not really interested in paying social contributions when they know that this is a position for maybe one year. They all want to earn as much money as possible and they want it cash. In some higher positions I know that they get 2 salarys one official with s.c. and the 2nd one cash or to a bank account in Monaco ?? Regarding VAT I think you also have to stay more than 183 days outside EU waters to avoid paying the VAT but I am not sure.
