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Adding a chartplotter

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by Audacious, Jul 12, 2017.

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  1. Audacious, Jul 12, 2017
    #1
    Audacious

    Audacious New Member

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    We're under contract to buy a Navigator 53 Classic. There's a Garmin 4212 on the bridge but none in the Pilothouse. I've spoken to a couple of electronics guys who want me to go all new. I'm not ready to do that now since what's there now works. Since the 4212 is discontinued, I'd appreciate any ideas about what might work. Thanks
  2. Pascal, Jul 13, 2017
    #2
    Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Before you spend a lot of cash on electronics you may not use much, use the boat for a while and see what you needs. I see so many people who redo the electronics on a newly purchased boats going overboard...

    On a boat with two helms, you may find yourself rarely running from one of them making those complex networked system unneeded. One exception would be if you routinely operate in an area with fog where you. May need radar are both station

    I have both a lower and upper helm on my 53 and only use the lower helm to dock or if it rains. I use an iPad with Garmin blue chart which is just as accurate as the built in plotter I have on the FB.

    Otherwise, just install a stand alone good plotter, it's an easy job
  3. Bill106, Jul 13, 2017
    #3
    Bill106

    Bill106 Senior Member

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    Most of the newer Garmin MFD's will interface and share data with the 4212 via NMEA 2000 and Garmin Marine Network (Ethernet) connections and you'd need to run both in any case. Basic nav data, radar, chart and sounder info is compatible but the newer advanced chirp sounder and radar features will not be available on the 4212, only the newer unit up top.
  4. Audacious, Jul 14, 2017
    #4
    Audacious

    Audacious New Member

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    That's what I hoped/thought. Thanks for the info.
  5. Audacious, Jul 14, 2017
    #5
    Audacious

    Audacious New Member

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    Thanks for jogging my memory

    We had a 53 and only had the radar, GPS up top. Operated from the lower helm less frequently and we were fine.
  6. Capt J, Jul 18, 2017
    #6
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I really dislike going the cheap route and NOT having radar and depth sounder at both helms. If I'm at the lower station, it is because the weather is SO BAD it deems me to be there. Well, if the weather is so bad it deems me to be there, I need Radar and possibly depth worse than ever. Also the IPAD route is not a replacement for a built in chartplotter. In inclement weather the IPAD loses GPS far too frequently, they're not waterproof at all, and the battery only lasts 4 hours on a new one unless it's plugged in. They are great as a secondary unit if you have totally working other stuff that's still adequate such as E120's or Navnet2's. I would install a new unit, perhaps keep your 4212 for now.....then later move it over and install a second new unit.......my preference would be 2 install 2 new units with radar etc etc.
  7. Audacious, Jul 19, 2017
    #7
    Audacious

    Audacious New Member

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    Thanks for the info. I agree about not having a complete nav system. I'll very likely do as you suggest and phase in new hardware.
  8. Prospective, Jul 19, 2017
    #8
    Prospective

    Prospective Senior Member

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    Finding used 4212's is another option. Guessing you could pick one up in good condition for $800 +/-
  9. Pascal, Jul 19, 2017
    #9
    Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    It depends on how use the boat. Capt J is right when it comes to a boat that travels so quite a bit in different climate and weather. Then you want to have radar and gps at both helms.

    For a boat which stay only in so fl and Bahamas for instance, a single radar is probably more than enough.

    As to the reliability of an iPad, I can honestly say that in the 3 to 4 years I ve had mine it has never crashed underway an de I always have it running as a back up using Garmin blue chart. With a lifeproof case it is water proof although not sunproof if left i direct sunlight.

    In fact I ve gotten more crashes on both furuno navnet and navnet 3D than with my iPad...
  10. Capt Ralph, Jul 19, 2017
    #10
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Crash monsters when you need them (NavNet Trash). F M that they are still on boats at all. Most un-reliable POS that was ever installed on anything.
  11. Capt J, Jul 19, 2017
    #11
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I have little navnet 2 issues on boats and they're still working. I have far more crashes and issues on E 80's and E 120's than anything. Navnet 2's only seem to have issues if they have voltage spikes and drops.
  12. Pascal, Jul 19, 2017
    #12
    Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Well my iPad runs on its battery so now voltage issues :)

    Yeah whenever I ve had to run boats with Ray E series I d also get crashes
  13. Capt Ralph, Jul 20, 2017
    #13
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Crash-Ray??
    Seems my ole Pathfinder junk is still pretty cool. RL80 & HSB i/o to my PCs. Zero bugs.
    E120 & E120W still hick-up. I have found the Ray-Stuff Switch (hub) causes most problems. RayMarine (Flir) thinks the switch is solid, It's not.
    On one boat, RayM swapped all E stuff with E-wide stuff, Same F*ng problem remained. It was the switch as I tried to point out.
    Oh, it was a glitch RayM pointed out later.....
    Twice later, I've proved the switch should be looked at early in bug fixes..

    I finally have some confidence in the E stuff and picking up some equip from e-bay.

    I will never rely on that Furno NavNut stuff. Been on to many boats with issues.
    On some issues, I can state it was poor installation that caused issues (to be almost fair), but it's still overpriced fancy junk, IMHO.
  14. Capt J, Jul 20, 2017
    #14
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Ever try to replace the GPS antannae for a pathfinder or E120???? Requires switching all sorts of crap.
  15. Capt Ralph, Jul 20, 2017
    #15
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Still run the old RN3x0 GPS stuff. Works very well. E crap still uses the SeaTalk I lingo well also.
    Just not Pathfinder HSB (1 or II).

    All else plugs rite into the Cat5 net without the extra hardware required for old Pathfinder HSB (1 or II) I/O.

    I'm a fan of solid equipment. Not worried how old it is.
    I fav boat still has DECA 101.
    When it works, don't kick it (to hard).
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2017
  16. Audacious, Jul 23, 2017
    #16
    Audacious

    Audacious New Member

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    Thanks for the info all. Very much appreciated. I think we'll use the iPad as an auxilliary for the trip from FL to NJ if needed and add something permanent once we have a better feel for how we use the boat. We've had Raymarine gear in the past and Garmin now. Any general thoughts on brands?
  17. Capt J, Jul 23, 2017
    #17
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    You're going to need a chartplotter more than ever from Fl to NJ. I would just install it. Garmin, Furuno, and Simrad in that order.......Raymarine is garbage.

    The Garmin App is more readable and better than the navionics app. BUT, you have to click on the charts you want and download them, it doesn't download all of them automatically.
  18. Audacious, Jul 23, 2017
    #18
    Audacious

    Audacious New Member

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    Thanks, Capt J
    We'll stay with Garmin. The 4212 that's on the bridge works fine and I really like it. We've got a 4kw open array that's probably at least as old as the 4212. If we add, say, a 7612, do you know if it will work with the older radar antenna?
  19. Capt J, Jul 23, 2017
    #19
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I do not.
  20. Iknownothing, Jul 23, 2017
    #20
    Iknownothing

    Iknownothing Member

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    While I'm fairly certain it will work just fine its best to call Garmin tech support to be safe.

    I installed a a new 3 display system with the Fantom radar on a big Mangusta last year. They had an older 5000 series display that we kept as a backup and it was able to communicate with the new hardware with no issues.

    One thing that is really helpful is installing a port expander and connecting everything to it instead of using the network ports on the displays to piggyback. If one display goes out, radar and sounder will still be available on the others.
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