Hargrave Fractional via Monocle

I manage a yacht for an owner that also has a partnership in one of the Monacle 100' Hargraves and he is very happy with it. Aside from the entrance price, it costs him around $40k a year maintanence for his 4 weeks a year. , 2 weeks and 2 weeks and the boat runs a crew of 4. The downside is that his 2 sets of 2 weeks are on the same weeks every year. Although some of the partners trade their weeks around to a small degree. Other downside according to him is that the boat is in 2 different places. Northeast for the summer and Carribbean for the winter. 6 months at each place which can be a little too early or a little too late for the proper weather. He feels it would be better if the weeks were split into 3- 10 day blocks and the boat was in 3 different places to better suit the weather or seasons. That being said he thoroughly enjoys it. Also, his 50-60' yacht here in Florida costs him as much to maintain a year and he uses it about the same amount of time and feels it's not worth it to own the 50-60' for the amount of usage he gets with it.

Oh, and the crew is run completely ragged and has a high turnover. They have 40 weeks of guest on-board in 2 week blocks, 3 days of turnover between guests another 60 days or 9 weeks of turnover......so that's 49 weeks, a 2 week yard period......so essentially the crew is working 51 weeks non stop out of 52 weeks. But, if the schedule fits your schedule than it's a good deal for you at $40k maintanence a year for 4 weeks of usage.

That needs to be a primary concern when choosing a boat, probably even more important than the boat itself. Are the locations suitable to you?

Another really big downside. Should the person who gets x-mas/New Years and Easter pay the same as the guy who gets say late October? Some companies have this figured out pretty well, while others don't seem to want to do the extra work. One way is to sell shares (days) instead of weeks and giving first choice to the largest share holder, etc. Another would be to hold a lottery for prime times such as holidays. This is basically a Timeshare, except that Timeshares often have mechanisms in place for people to use their times at different locations. Despite this many timeshare still go unused after a few years. So the devil really is in the details with fractional ownership agreements.

Well, on the other hand you know what weeks you get when you buy into it, so you know.

Very true, and many families work well that way. For me, with the exception of holidays and a few personal dates, my vacation schedule changes year to year, and I seldom go to the same place twice. So it's all a matter of what works for the individual. It's a serious consideration that needs to be thought through before someone plunks down a big hunk of change and commits to another big hunk every year for the foreseeable future.
Another consideration is the exit strategy. What's it going to cost to get out of it if it no longer works for you in a few years? Will the company buy your share? Are you permitted to sell your share on your own or do you have to depend on the company to do it (in which case they'll take a fee and push your sale to the bottom of the list while they sell new shares since they already have your money coming in)? This is a common problem with time shares and dockominiums. Many people find that they have to pay to get out.

One thing all of the owners and you are failing to realize, is that it takes 3 days of work to Turn that boat around, clean the exterior, the interior, linens, provision, maintanence before the next group. So, the crew doesn't get any time off in between guests. Think about it, a washdown takes an entire day, then you have a day of cleaning the tender, cushions, polishing stainless, etc etc etc........just for the mate......then the stewardess has an entire day doing laundry and putting the stuff back on the beds, etc..... a day or two cleaning the interior etc.........

The only way I could see this deal work well for everyone and the crew is either 8 owners max, and 32 weeks of usage max (which is still a lot), OR have 2 identical boats, and 3 complete full time crews and rotate each set of crew for 2 weeks off every month.........It seems to be working on the 1 boat I know of, BUT they go through stewardesses and mates every 2 months......OHHH and the owners are encouraged to NOT tip them.......so why wouldn't they just go to a busy charterboat making more money and less work.......

Of course a well run operation could have a dock crew that hits the boat when it arrives washing the outside and interior in a few hours, leaving the crew to do the prep work at an unstressed pace. That could easily cut that 3 day layup down to 1, and save them from replacing and retraining crew every few months (not to say it's the way most do it). Personally, if I were laying out that kind of money, I'd like a boat where I'd have the same crew each time, and I'd hate to be out with a crew who has burned out and is planning to leave soon.

How do you hire people when you're constantly moving?

That means 6 straight weeks with nary a day off for the crew unless you provide for it. I doubt the employer would see it as an opportunity to give the crew a vacation afterwards. They'll have the boat back out making money as soon as it can be cleaned up and reprovisioned.
Is there an opportunity to charter the boat on a trial basis? That would give you a chance to talk with the crew and get a feel for the experience.

Hi,

Maybe the two of you can have a chat and see if it is possible to meet or at least communicate directly with the Owner CaptJ is working for.

I can talk to the owner that has a partnership in a Monacle Hargrave. He's a super nice guy and probably wouldn't mind talking to you about it. He has no problems using the same weeks each year. He is very happy with the situation and it meets all of his expectations. He is partners on a different Hargrave than the one you're looking into......The Captain and another crewmember have been on the boat a long time. Most owners wouldn't even notice that the other crew turns over a lot because they're only on the boat every 6 months......He's had the partnership for a couple of years and like I said....it only costs him $40,000 a year for his 4 weeks and I think that even includes when he's on it.......

The other question I have, is what happens as the boat gets old.......I'm guessing your share price would go down with the value of the boat just like depreciation on a yacht........

If you had 2 boats with 3 sets of crew, you could even rotate them and keep them on the same weeks with the same owners, so the owners in reality wouldn't even know there's another set of crew unless they swapped weeks with another owner......

He's actually interested in going partners in a late model 70-80' MY that is kept here in South Florida and travels maybe NE, Bahamas, etc.....his needs are 4 staterooms, full beam master, nice crew quarters.......

My parents and I spent some time with Loren Simkowicz, Monocle founder and President, at FLIBS last year and the whole operation seems very sound. Loren maintains a great relationship with the Hargrave team, which he capitalizes on by purchasing several boats from them at a discounted price. Loren believes that by bringing together like-minded individuals who want an effortless yachting experience for only a couple of weeks a year (Generally 4 weeks) - that he can pass on the savings as opposed to owning the vessel outright. There are no headaches, but as mentioned before there are some drawbacks. Obviously location and crew could be potential issues although Loren assured us that locations change each year by popular vote amongst the owners. One of the drawbacks that we discussed is the fact that these Hargraves are very "plain jane" and are almost identical to each other one in Monocles fleet. Now if the Hargraves aren't your cup of tea, Monocle has had some success selling shares on all types and sizes of vessels for owners all over the world. Overall - Loren comes from a business background and can provide good information on tax benefits and the like. One interesting thing to note is that two vessels which are in Monocle's fleet are on the market: Perfect Harmony 100' and Vitesse 68'. I know they are also planning on brining that new Hargrave 136' to the fractional market and are actively pursuing interested parties. All-in-all, for the value, this business model makes good sense if the right management team is behind it.

This I know for a fact, on the 1 that I am familiar with. You have 20 2week blocks of owner usage....... 3 days turnaround between each 2 week block (60 days or 9 weeks), in my math, that works out to 49 weeks of work for the crew. Then there is a 2 week yard period, so you have 51 weeks of usage out of a 52 week year. The only downtime the crew gets is if an owner does not use his entire 2 week block for whatever reason. The boat also does a lot of anchoring to save money which is difficult on the crew as well.

From an owner standpoint it works out very well. Where else can you have 4 weeks use of a 100' fully crewed for around $40k a year in maintanence. You can't charter one for more than a week for that price. The other issue is the boat spends 6 months in 2 locations.....a majority vote can change the locations, but only 2 locations so all owners have their weeks at the same place......... well 6 months is too long for the Carribbean season and part of that is too cold, or too far into Hurricane season.......and the other 6 months is too early and late into the season if they bring the boat to say Martha's vineyard......