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Am I being stupid to consider...

Discussion in 'Chris Craft Connies, Commanders & Catalinas' started by harrisos, Nov 1, 2010.

  1. harrisos

    harrisos New Member

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    ...buying an older Chris-Craft yacht as my first motor yacht?

    There are two Chris-Craft motor yachts for sale that I have my eye on and having lived on land for 10+ years I've been feeling it's time to go back a boat again and my wife likes the idea too. We'd like to spend time cruising from Puget Sound up to Alaska's Inside Passage and/or down to California and Mexico.

    The first is a 1970 47' Commander, fibreglass hull, twin Detroit Diesel 258s, stored indoors and almost completely restored until the owner passed away.

    The second is a 1966 45' Constellation, wooden hull, twin Ford 427 gas engines, hauled out and new bottom paint as of August 2010.

    My third option is a completely different make, a 1992 37' Sea Ray 370. Fibreglass hull, with twin gas engines.

    I love the look of the 45' Constellation, but I'm a bit concerned of the maintenance costs of a wooden hull, and whether or not the twin gas engines will be able to work efficiently with such a big boat or would diesel engines be better. This boat is very close by and I could look at it personally.

    The Commander is also a nice-looking boat, I'm hoping that the fibreglass hull is still in decent condition and I do like the twin diesels. Unfortunately this boat is much further away and I'd have to have it shipped to the Puget Sound area.

    The Sea Ray has a much more modern design, but again it's gas engines in a 37' boat make me wonder about efficiency, and how quickly I'd burn through the 250 gallons of fuel in it's tanks. It's also close by me and I could look at it in person.

    If you (yes, you!) were buying your first motor yacht for cruising up and down the west coast of North America, which of these three (or maybe something completely different) would you go for, and why?
  2. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    I don't believe any of the three boats you mentioned would be suitable for your intended use.
  3. harrisos

    harrisos New Member

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    Then what would be a boat suitable for what I want to do, and what would these boats be used for?
  4. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    The Sea Ray is not designed for long distance cruising, it's designed for day trips. Long distance cruising requires a hull design with superior sea keeping abilities, redundant systems, fuel capacity, economical performance, ample storage, a comfortable space for crew, and the ability to be self suficient on the water for days at a time.

    The Commander hull is probably bullet proof. They are built like a tank. I don't know what condition "almost completely restored" is in this case, but again this boat was not built for the kind of long distance cruising we have on the west coast.

    The Constellation may be a beautiful boat, but you are in classic car territory with this one. Lavish it with attention. Take it out for a Sunday cruise. This boat might take your local yard owner's kid through college, but it's not going to take you anywhere.

    A boat with the capability to safely cruise the west coast from Alaska to Mexico is going to require a bigger budget than the choices you have made here.
  5. harrisos

    harrisos New Member

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    I wasn't talking about non-stop from Alaska to Mexico, more like hopping from marina to marina along the west coast - admittedly it would be more difficult in Alaska as there are fewer places to stop, but I was hoping it could be possible in either of the two Chris-Craft's.
  6. luckylg

    luckylg New Member

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    For cruising the San Juans and Gulf Islands any of these will be fine though not ideal. Alaska and west coast cruising, even harbor hopping like you propose to do, will be hit and miss. Passage between ports on the west coast can be difficult due to the distance between safe and navigable harbors. Passage during this time of year can be darn near impossible. Trip planning and weather watching becomes critical and failure to do so can be catastrophic in the wrong vessel.
  7. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    I think Puget Sound and SE Alaska would be ideal cruising grounds for the diesel powered Chris. Far better than the West Coast because once you turn left at Cape Flattery it's a long long way to anywhere and you might not even be able to get in once you get there much less turn around and go back.
  8. harrisos

    harrisos New Member

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    I think the next marina south from Cape Flattery is La Push, but after that there's nothing until Ocean Shores.

    We visited some of the ports of SE Alaska on a cruise to the Inside Passage a few years ago, and we'd love to return and see more of the towns that weren't on our itinerary.

    I've worked on board ships in the North Sea at this time of year, I know how rough the water can get sometimes. I wasn't thinking of going out into the Pacific over winter, but it'd consider it in spring provided I could safely carry enough fuel to get to where I want to go.

    Maybe I should carry a large kite to pull the boat in case of emergencies...
  9. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    It's not just a seasonal thing. There are about 3000 miles of fetch for a mid Pacific storm to generate swells which often make the bars at the mouths of Pacific Coast ports inaccessible, the ports close, you can't cross the bar without literally risking a miserable death.

    It's not always bad, sometimes you can run the entire coast southbound just off the beach, other times, a cushion of a hundred miles may be necessary. I've had absolutely magic runs northbound (uphill) in a 50m yacht all the way from Cabo to Juan de Fuca when it was like a millpond but more trips on an 800 foot supertanker when life wasn't worth living for another day. The weather along that coast is like a box of chocolates ... you just never know.

    Go north, it will take about 20 years to see most of it and it's 99 percent "inside."
  10. travler

    travler Senior Member

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    the run from cape flattery south can be just as bad as cimeing up the coast as marmot say's you just never know and the places to hide can be real tough to get in

    travler
  11. harrisos

    harrisos New Member

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    Good point - my experience in the Atlantic has always been in the tropics and in summer, I've never had to experience swells like that (I've never worked in the Pacific)

    I found http://waggonerguide.com/ last night, it looks like there's waayyy more to see than I thought before... 20 years sounds about right.
  12. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I agree, the diesel Chris is the closest. I think you'd be better suited with a 50' sailboat or a trawler then a motoryacht. I am not very familiar with the cruising grounds there.
  13. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    The mast on a sailboat just provides a place for eagles to perch. I think the only place I can remember seeing a sail raised between Vancouver, BC and Seward was during one of the afternoon beer races in Ketchikan. :)

    Trawlers look good in that area, you can wear your Carhartts and Xtratuf boots and not look out of place. The locals won't be offended by an old Chris at all and will probably like to see it.
  14. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    I looked at the listings for both of the Chris-Crafts you are considering... you asked for advice and I stand by my original post. I don't believe even the fiberglass Chris is capable of your intended use without mechanical refit at a cost greater than the value of the boat.
  15. harrisos

    harrisos New Member

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    Yet another silly question from me: Would it be possible to replace the standard fuel tanks with bigger ones to get an extended range?

    I am re-considering my choices - while I still have the fibreglass Commander at the back of my mind, there's a couple of trawlers nearby that I'm also considering. There's a Tollycraft at a local marina for sale that I might take a look at. The same place has a Commander too, so I could do a side-by-side comparison.
  16. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    The boat holds only 350 gallons of fuel. It is not a good candidate for additional tanks, and if done improperly there is not much worse you can do to screw up a boat. Also the listing refers only to "cabin updates" such as carpet, cushions, etc... hence my prior post regarding mechanical refit.

    Buying an older project boat that's on the hard, partially completed, from an estate, is not for everyone. But if you're a professional DIY type of guy it might work for you.
  17. harrisos

    harrisos New Member

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    I wasn't referring to that boat specifically, but this is good info about additional fuel tanks - thanks!
  18. CaptTom

    CaptTom Senior Member

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    harrisos and others,
    Can't tell you much about west coast cruising since I've never done it.
    But I can tell you that you are getting a world of good information here from everyone that has responded. This is what makes YachtForums a great site. Ask the questions and folks will come out of the woodwork to help. Sometimes it can save you a few bucks; othertimes it can save your butt.
  19. harrisos

    harrisos New Member

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    No joke, I've learned so much just from reading the posts on this site, none of which were in books or posted elsewhere online.
  20. P Jardine

    P Jardine New Member

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    I am not a west coast cruiser, so it's interesting to read some of the posts, and they make sense. The CC Commander is the best choice of the three.... do NOT buy a wooden boat unless you have significant experience with them. I say this from the point of view of being an owner/restorer of wooden boats. I presently have four, so I have really lost sight of reality:D

    The Sea Ray is a total waste of time in my opinion.

    The Chris Craft 47 foot Commander is a very very well built boat. The hull was built in three pieces, the bottom to just above the chine, then the two sides were joined with that massive rub rail that extends about half way up the boat. The fibreglass was immensely thick, so a crippling amount of osmosis is very rare. The problem as stated is three fold. First, the mechanical systems are dated, and the cost of updating is expensive. I would usually say that boats like this do have an upside since they are usually well priced, but the market is so buyer oriented at the moment that better boats can probably be had for the 'renovated' price of the commander. Second is tankage, as mentioned. Third is the basic design. Most offshore capable boats have significantly more buoyancy forward than the commander and as a result have greater seaworthiness in large seas or breaking shallow harbor entrances. I personally would consider a 47 commander for the east coast/intercoastal waterway, but going north to Alaska...hmmm you would need to be careful.