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Egg harbor 37 want to use HDPE for worm shoe

Discussion in 'General Sportfish Discussion' started by sdowney717, Sep 27, 2024.

  1. sdowney717

    sdowney717 New Member

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    The keel base is 4" wide flat and long, extending front to rear but about 3/4 way of the length of boat
    Hull is round chine lobster boat or downeast looking style and weighs 20,000 lbs

    I am thinking of screwing in solid HDPE plank 1/2" thick, 4" width to use as a 'worm shoe' to attach to the white oak keel.
    A person told me the boat will slide off the keel blocks when hauled claims to have seen several large boats fall off keel blocks with no HDPE worm shoes, so says expect a disaster. I don't think that will happen. The shore D hardness of HDPE is 68, wood shore D is 70, Compressive strength of HDPE is 750 PSI with 10% deformation at 1000 PSI. Some guy claims is so slippery it will slip all over the keel blocks.

    Every worm shoe I put on this boat gets eaten with worms, so tired of doing wood which always fails, time effort money is wasted

    So what do you think
  2. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Isn't that the purpose of a worm shoe?
    Like a zinc for metal, a softer sacrificial piece of wood for the worms?
  3. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Well, if the only concern is slipping on keel blocks, you could rout 1/4" recess spaces into the 1/2" HDPE for your blocking locations to prevent that slippage. ?
  4. sdowney717

    sdowney717 New Member

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    No, wood is wood they equal opportunity wood eaters of exposed wood.
  5. sdowney717

    sdowney717 New Member

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    Not sure how that works? Marina Keel blocks are big rectangular pieces of wood. The keel sits on the Marina keel blocks, they are randomly chosen by marina people when they haul the boat out.

    The blocks are placed longwise perpendicular to a keel forming a cross and are like 2 to 3 feet in length and 10 to 12 " width. And they stuff whatever else they have on hand on top the big blocks to form a surface that conforms to the shape of a keel
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2024
  6. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The purpose of the worm shoes is SO THAT IT GETS EATEN, and to keep the worms from eating your hull. Put a proper wood worm shoe and bottom paint the side that attaches to the hull so they don't eat through it into the hull.
  7. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    I understand blocking. Keel blocks are generally placed with some amount of randomness. You would bypass the random placement by instructing placement at the locations of a routed recess. The recess would prevent slippage when resting on the blocks no-longer-placed-randomly.
  8. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Agreed. And couldn't you also sandwich a roll of copper tape between the layers for the penetration protection?
  9. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    The poor ole redneck used tar paper.
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  10. sdowney717

    sdowney717 New Member

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    Wont work. If I am thinking I know your mind about this, how could it? The keel slip is not fore aft, it is sideways supposedly according to the other fellow. Then he really has no knowledge, it is his opinion only about HDPE causing a boat to fall off the blocks. He gave me examples of boats which fell off blocks that did not have an HDPE worm shoe on the keel bottom. And in his mind, HDPE would just make it more likely to happen. Now I have never known a heavy boat to slip off keel blocks, have you?

    You also can know that infested worms in wood are releasing millions of worm larvae, and so when the wood worm shoe gets infested, all that is right next to your boat hull just inches and feet away. You really do not want a wood source near your boat doing such a thing. I may go back to my original idea, coat the keel in 5200, and glue Nylon 1000 denier fabric to the bottom of the keel. 5200 and nylon and wood stick well to each other.
  11. sdowney717

    sdowney717 New Member

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    No it is not the purpose of the worm shoe, makes no sense. The worm shoe does not divert worms away from anything, Worms eat any exposed wood.
    Keel bottom easy to get exposed wood, so make it a separate replaceable part of the keel bottom separated by a layer of something to the true keel

    A worm shoe does not exist for worms to eat it.
  12. sdowney717

    sdowney717 New Member

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    A worm shoe could be a thick fiberglass strip screwed on to a wood keel
    Does not have to be wood.

    When I cut up my 60's old runabout, should have cut long hull strips to use as a worm shoe. Too bad it escaped my mind.

    Is there any such thing similar to that you can buy?
  13. BlueNomad

    BlueNomad Senior Member

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  14. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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  15. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Good plan.

    Worms LOVE 5200. That'll really attract them and expedite the failure.

    If the concern is side slippage, pretty easy to control with quick addition of one foot 2x4's and some 3" drywall screws into the blocks abutting the keel after she is set. If your stands are set properly and chained together, I don't see a side slip happening, but why roll dice? If it's a stated concern, nip it in the bud like an Egyptian...except they didn't have screw guns....this isn't rocket science.
    sdowney717 likes this.
  16. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    "Though the teredo is not a worm at all but a bivalve mollusc, it is only one of many hungry little vegetarian creatures which love nothing better than a good old munch on your boats timbers and not all of them live in tropical waters.

    It only takes a pinhead sized hole in your boats protective paint/anti-fouling for them to get into her timber.

    Once in they can munch their way along the grain until the wood is as fragile as paper.



    The slightest gouge exposing end grain is akin to opening a free canteen for borers.

    And you don’t need to smash into coral or rock, the vast majority of the sea bed is made up of very abrasive stuff.

    Even the lightest brush over sand or shell will rub off the anti-fouling.

    So the point of the sacrificial shoe is to have an easily replaceable piece which will take the damage and keep the ‘worms’ occupied and out of the main structural timbers."

    Worm shoe Sacrificial Protection for Wooden Boats (diy-wood-boat.com)
  17. sdowney717

    sdowney717 New Member

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    yes, then it would not slip, Another suggestion was put sand on the keel blocks.
  18. sdowney717

    sdowney717 New Member

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    you are not keeping them ocupied so they dont eat the rest of the boat. Yes, small wood exposure anywhere underwater and worms can settle in.
    An HDPE worm shoe worms wont eat that plastic, so painted HDPE wont be scraped off causing risk.

    And you do not want a wood worm shoe on your boat as it is a breeding ground for worm larvae by the millions. Just increases the risk as you are carrying it with you all the time. Best to not have wood worm shoes. In my mind, I compare it to carrying around a hornet nest with you, you're very likely to be stung.


    I am leaning more towards 5200 on the keel and then using 5200 to glue on 1000 denier nylon fabric. Won't be any wood exposed then. The fabric is tough stuff. Also no slip off block risks.
    5200 sticks well to Nylon

    I know wood boats have used wood worm shoes a long time. Reason is shoe wood sheds paint, worms eat the worm shoe but there is a barrier placed between shoe and keel they do not eat through that barrier. But then always the worm shoes get eaten and destroyed so a continual hard expensive ongoing replacement job
  19. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    You can lead them to water...