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The Venus / Lady “Yellin” Moura incident

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Pascal, Aug 9, 2024.

  1. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I have a couple of question about big boat operations, way out of my league:).

    I came across a video from Sysman about this incident (is this guy annoying or what?) where he claims that it would take a long time for the Lady Yellin’ to be started because an engineer would have to go to the ER, pumps would have to be brought online first, etc. This was presented as an excuse for the time it took them to act.

    I got curious and looked up the specs on the boat and she appears to be powered by a pair of VERY big but fairly simple Deutz diesels.

    So for those with experience on really BIG boats, is there really not a way to start the engines remotely from the bridge in case of an emergency? Even if that is the case, I find it difficult to believe that with such a massive crew, the engine room isn’t manned 24/7 to keep watch on generators, Water makers and other systems.

    This storm didn’t come out of nowhere. It started out west and moved thru Corsica/Sardinia before reaching Italy. How can the crew of such a large vessel be caught by surprise? Even on our small 110 footer, should there be any sign the weather may turn, toys and tenders get secured. Should the wind hit 20/25 kts or if a storm / squall is about to hit usually causing a wind shift, the mains are started just in case.

    i find it hard to understand how the crew of this massive boat could have been been caught with their pants down.
  2. Whitney Irons

    Whitney Irons New Member

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    If they had air pressure up (assuming air start engines) it would take 10-15 minutes to start up steering hydraulic pumps, engine cooling pumps, etc. It takes me about 7 minutes to start up my steering and engines on a 96' San Lorenzo.

    But the point you make about being prepared and watching weather is prescient. When we anchor, I keep steering on and at a ready state so I only need to start the mains. If there is weather coming the engines are on while at anchor awaiting a blow.
  3. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    It may take as long as 30 minutes to get a boat that size operational. If the air compressor isn't on and needs to build pressure to air start the motors and it may have air controls. Which is a possibility because the air compressor kicking on may use a lot of electrical as well as hydraulics and they may need to run another gen just for air compressor and other running loads like steering. Steering, etc. etc. It's really more a commercial ship than a yacht as far as systems go.
    captholli likes this.
  4. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    What kind of engines do you have ? On the 110 I run with 16V2000 MTUs, it takes about 15 seconds for the engines to boot up before they can be fired up. As soon as they fire up hydraulic pressure come up and everything is available: steering, windlass, thruster, etc.
  5. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I can understand some systems being shut down when dockside but at anchor? Air compressors not being kept online? No matter how big they may be, their draw ha sto be minimal compared to air con, water makers etc.
  6. Whitney Irons

    Whitney Irons New Member

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    We have C-18's but the control system takes a solid 2 minutes to boot up. Slowest I've ever seen. The steering is an Italian electric job and there are 4 separate breakers with 2 of them back in a corner that is very difficult to get to.
  7. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    Large vessels with air start systems have multiples of receivers to hold compressed air. I was taught to always keep two out of our six receivers at full pressure and valved off in case of emergency starts. As far as remote starting of mains from the bridge goes its really not an option with pre lube pumps and cooling pumps switched in the ECR or locally on the engine control enunciators.
  8. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I remember an old Huckins with air starters on some big OLD Cats.
    Sadly a dock queen. Big, Big cast iron bottle under the rear master bed.
    It would hold starting pressure for a few days but eventually leak down.
    Then, a lil "Speed-Air" compressor in the power room needed to run for about 20-30 minutes to fill that big bottle up. Cold fire up the port main first so it's belt driven compressor would help build up air again for cold starting the stb main.
    If the mains were warm, they both could be started on the first air bottle charge.

    But even then, if bad weather was coming, everyone and their mother around here knows it's coming so what's 30 minutes in the big picture. Even if it took a hour to lite her up.
    Last edited: Aug 9, 2024
  9. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    In good practice, the captain, mate, stew or even a pot washer should of been cross trained to start that ship up and not relie on one guy.
    I can understand if that crew can't find a new job anytime soon...
  10. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    I hate playing Monday morning QB, but I will chime in to answer your question. On BERILDA I have the ability to start the main engines and backup generator from the bridge. But I would NEVER do so without a solid line of communication between myself and Chief Engineer, in order to maintain the safety of anyone working in the engine room.
    I happen to know the captain of Lady Moura, and know him to be a VERY conscientious master whom I look up to.
  11. RER

    RER Senior Member

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    Lady Moura used the same strategy I’ve always used when someone swings or drags anchor next to me. Sit tight and yell at them!
  12. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I have no doubt the master of a such a boat is VERY conscientious. I am just curious to learn from such an incident.

    I was also very surprised about the explanation given on that Sysman video about how long it takes to get such a boat going especially when anchored.
  13. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    Every vessel is different, and on many yachts the engines can only be started locally in the engine room. As stated in the video, control will then be transferred to the bridge. Simply put, it can take time to do things safely and properly. As for other lessons to be learned- refer to my post in the VENUS thread for what is likely a good or near explanation of the events.
  14. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

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    I have C-18’s too. Yes, they take awhile to fully boot. However, they will start if emergent once the initial alarm light goes out when you turn the key on. So like 10-15 seconds.
  15. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Ken, wouldn’t you agree that on a boat like that there will always be someone monitoring the ER?
  16. Ken Bracewell

    Ken Bracewell Senior Member

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    Not necessarily. There are allowances for unmanned machinery spaces, based on the types of monitoring equipment installed.
  17. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    A vessel Lady Moura's size carries 3 or 4 engineers + ETO's etc. and one is always on watch albeit maybe working in the lazz. or in a shaft ally and not necessarily in the engine room or ECR all the time while on engineering watch.
  18. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    I was chief engineer on an old converted Danish hospital ship that had a single Burmeister & Wain Alpha 16U28 for a main engine that had no reversing gear or clutch system and the engine had to be stopped to go from fwd. to reverse through a fuel cam servo timing system and the air receivers had enough air for 6 starts or shifts for maneuvering so if we didn't have any tugs the captain had six chances to get her close enough to the dock for heaving lines or there was a 20 minute pause for compressors to replenish a couple of receivers for re-start. We seldom had tugs assist us on this vessel so the Capt. was a bit high strung and existed on a steady diet of Rolaids.
  19. captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    No offence but Berilda would be nothing more than a tender size and crew wise for Lady Moura. Certainly not apples to apples as far as what remote automation capabilities you may have from the wheelhouse, not even close
  20. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Now, There was MV Heck. Hydraulically started engines with bath-tub gears.
    You hand pumped up the hydraulic pressure with a pump and 2 foot handle.
    Almost invested in that boat till reality hit me,,, 9 foot draft..