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Resin

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by gr8trn, Feb 15, 2023.

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  1. gr8trn

    gr8trn Senior Member

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    I follow sailboat construction and methods and trends over time more closely.

    I have to say, my 2009 Californian Veneti 50 built by Navigator Yachts in Perris California is a sold glass hand laid hull with balsa cored deck (except in high load sections).

    I don't know if it is polyester or vinyl ester resin, I very much doubt it is expoxy. I don't know if I need to know. It is what it is.

    But...today what are major boat manufacturers using?

    Back to my sailboat side of the story, it ranges from Polyester and Vinyl Ester in one of the most renowned French yard, Outremer. To Epoxy/Basalt fiber for a new start French yard Windeloo. Plenty of yards now going infused E glass as well.

    Next question, what are the motor yacht yards doing, Sunseeker, Princess, Nordhaven, Riva, Azimut, Prestige and the Polish yard Galeon.

    Really my question is why do buyers not ask about this aspect of the boat and why do yards not disclosed this detail? It seems like hard to find information for tire kickers.
  2. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    It’s my understanding that vinylester has better blister resistance underwater. Polyester is cheaper and probably the most widely use

    The biggest advantage of epoxy besides the fact that it doesn’t smell is that it has better chemical bonding to existing resins so it’s better for repairs.
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  3. gr8trn

    gr8trn Senior Member

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    For sure, I find epoxy for fixing grp hull of any resin is doable. Not sure about the other way ‘round.

    Seems to me the only things going for polyester is lower cost, availability, familiarity, ease of repair and wait for it again…lower cost.



    I just wish yards would spell out the layup resin schedules from the design team, there are enoutire kickers that would like the information without bothering the yard with such questions. I may be wrong about that.
  4. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Yards don't want to say they use the cheapest poly resin they can when building. Just lay more cloth to soak up the extra risen to impress the customers.
    More cloth just covers the brittleness of cheap resins.

    The yards that TRY to advertise Vinyl, use just enough in the bottom sides to help reduce blister warranty calls.

    Epoxy is just to heavy and expensive to build with.

    I learned the hard way in a previous life, Epoxy only for repairs and small projects.
    Epoxy sticks to near everything.
    It's a poor gabble for resins to stick to epoxy.
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  5. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    On our larger models, Delta 48-54-60-88, we are using vacuum infused sandwich with Divinycell, carbon fiber and vinyl ester, with a vinyl ester gelcoat.
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  6. gr8trn

    gr8trn Senior Member

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    I hoped that you would reply, thanks for that. Also you have a superior layup so nothing to gloss over and ignore. Well done @AMG.
  7. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    Most builders use Isphotalic gelcoat, with a coat of Vinilester resin (some two) and then the normal polyester resin below that.
    Some builders also like the powder bound mat, which reduces blisters popping up. British builders used to do it this way just after the first layer.
    With resin infusion I do not know if they still build this way, as lay up is now very much hidden.
    With most now into vacuum infusion there is two main manufacturer's Divinycell which is the most widely used (also because they are cheaper) and CoreCell.
    Corecell system is known to be much better especially for avoiding resin starved areas (leading to delamination) due to the engineering design of its core.
    Altough Divinycell second generation Cores have closed this gap a bit.
  8. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    I watched a detailed video of the Euro Marine - Lazzara yard in Turkey, they use foam core (didn’t say which) and all epoxy construction

    I ll post the link in a new thread. Very interesting
  9. gr8trn

    gr8trn Senior Member

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    That is what I'm curious about, why no mention of the foam specification...

    I do hear about Divinycell foam most often, interesting to find there are, perhaps, varying qualities available now.
    Like I mentioned earlier Windelo Cats in France is using PET foam they claim to be more recycled link here:https://www.windelo-catamaran.com/en/ecology/. Interesting.
  10. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    The green color visible in the shots of the boats being built could be Divinycel. The yard manager said it was the same core used in aeronautical construction incl Boeing.
  11. Fishtigua

    Fishtigua Senior Member

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    I learned my boatbuilding trade at AquaStar, making offshore Pilot boats and fastfishers; we did 50% yachts too. Tough inch thick hulls that could take a knock or two.

    The first layer was always Isothropic to counter extreme cold temperatures and cracking. Hand lamination of this kind isn't used very often today as it's very heavy and costly, that's why old 70's boats have lasted so long, we just didn't know when to stop.
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  12. Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    I think the thickness is still more or less the same today, the difference might be that most of the new builds are cored.
    It is an endless discussions if PVC core is better to older Balsa core for strength.
    For water absorption resistance PvC wins hands down, although balsa core is near impossible to be resin starved.
    Then it gets to what you want from strength. PVC cored boats are more stiff, which a salesman from a Core-Product will tell you is stronger.
    But a boat, hence why wood is still the most sound material for boat building (not to maintain today for many reasons), and feels like a butter in rough seas needs tensile strength.

    So what I am saying is that with cored boats we have the rigidity of an alloy boat but build in sandwich layers of glass, resin, and core.
    Which probably is good until it comes to the breakpoint which is less to that of a traditional solid glass hull.
  13. gr8trn

    gr8trn Senior Member

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    I am interested to follow Ran Sailing on youtube as they are in the process of barn building a monohull pilot house sloop in Sweden.
    They just completed their strong back and temporary framing. They stumbled on a barn find of western red cedar among other woods that they will strip and plank the hull. It will be fun for me to follow their build.

    It makes sense what you say about the current lay up of coring and laminate with some Polyester, vinyl ester or epoxy. These hulls are Stiff but that does not mean "strong" in the sense of all aspects of "strength".