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Lifting strakes / strips ?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Fiammetta42, Jan 27, 2023.

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  1. Fiammetta42

    Fiammetta42 Member

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    Which part of a planing boat hull this term widely used term referring to ?

    I thought it was the submerged section s of strikes that may have started at the bow above the water as spray rails , and they moved aft behind the disruption zone , submerged perhaps changed shape .

    Maybe taken to various lengths , some occasionally on faster narrower hulls to the transom? Tend to be horizontal to the planing surface ?


    I am I correct ?
  2. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    You are correct and the same name is used for those, usually in aluminium, that you can buy and add on to extend or widen the existing strakes. These aftermarket can also be called speed rails or spray rails...
  3. Fiammetta42

    Fiammetta42 Member

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    Thx for the reply .
    Does the submerged part commonly referred to as a lifting strip / stake / rail in certain circumstances contribute to stern lift ? When it’s fully submerged .

    Blue is submerged taken to the stern , but sometimes falls short .

    red the disruption area(s) where the majority of hull lift takes place

    Yellow the strake commonly known as the spray rail .Spends it time above the water when the boats running deflecting spray , reducing drag and somewhat also adding a little measured lift .

    0702E9A3-944B-4C2E-A229-C2544B00C65D.jpeg

    71470FC5-6A3E-474C-8930-84A48D1C6101.jpeg
    I know theses submerged strakes in “certain circumstances “ primarily are there to add stability, and reduce drag , but can if correctly shaped and dimensioned add lift at the stern?
  4. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    That red area are the hull vents. Later designs include these to break the hull from the water by allowing air between the hull and water. Reducing wetted surface and friction.
    There is not much lifting along there.

    I would consider the blue area a chine.
    There are novels of text about these. Round, hard, soft, steak-knife sharp, tunneled, multi stepped..

    Way down under the bow in yellow are the strakes.
    Up forward, they may help pick the bow up, but I think of them as shock absorbers; when the bow comes down or into a wave, they cushion the entry into the water.
    As they travel further aft, they may ad lift but I feel they keep the hull from sliding side to side and help trap air under the hull,
    These strakes usually stop before the last 1/3 of the hull. The after hull I call the pad. This area is mostly smooth on performance hulls as pictured. Most of the boats weight rides on this area.
    When all the other parts work, the pad is covered in a thin layer of air. I recall it was Reggie Fountain that spent all his R&D moneys improving this part of his boats. The smaller, flatter the pad area, the less friction, the faster the boat would run.
  5. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    VP and some other companies R&D'd screw or glue on rails years ago.
    Little mini angles that would help capture water/air under the strakes. They did find some performance in these things but it opened cans of worms.
    Mold tooling could not accommodate these modified strakes well for production boats.
    It was difficult to haul, trailer, fork-lift or touch the hull after installing.
    They were eventually passed off to history and I think it is just the custom guys that are still trying them.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2023
  6. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Are you working on an idea?
    Trying to get more of the boat out of the water: LIFT?

    Think foils and don't hit any big fish (whales or sea-dugongs).
  7. Fiammetta42

    Fiammetta42 Member

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    2968E4E0-227F-4E8C-8DAC-1F8EC9AA3E39.jpeg
    On a deep V like this 23 degree, the middle set run to the transom and are quite pronounced.It cruises comfortably @ 1800 rpm with MAN s at 30 knots
    There’s a lot of flat surface part way down the hull from the chine .
    Do they contribute to additional lift , net lift at speed .
    It’s got a bottom lifting pad as you can see as well .
    236BAF29-744B-4EC8-80DD-97B82CF176FD.jpeg


    62435B57-B6E0-4286-B4ED-05F593926AE1.jpeg
    Apologies for the pic rotation guys .
  8. Fiammetta42

    Fiammetta42 Member

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    No Iam trying to understand exactly what theses strakes do .Particularly if those wider more pronounced ones running to the transom create any lift .
    I think I have excessive lift .

    The reason I ask is say up on the plane running at 26/27 knots .The boat responds to rudder like any other .
    The boat runs very flat requiring zero tab .If a push the sticks Fwds more ( max speed is 38 knots ) the hull rises higher up , you can feel it lift higher and it low running angle say 4 degrees ( guess ) gets lower with out tabs .Tabs on Zero .
    In fact the stern rises so much, along with the rest of the hull so it makes those rudders pretty ineffective.
    For quick emergency type turns I have to pull the sticks back to effectively dip the rudders so they bite .
    At 35 knots full rudder just adds drag the boat still tracks true or if anything deviates by a tiny degree hardly worth mentioning.

    So where is the additional lift coming from ?

    Yes I have been reading Reggie Fountains stuff .He used theses strakes underwater to the transom .Far faster boats so not as wide due to the speed advantage .But nether the less more lift means less drag of the hull in the water = more speed = win races .All the others like Donzi etc and most Ray hunt designs run the strake to the transom of very close .They call them lifting strikes , strips .
    So as the name implies …….do they create lift ?


    Also above a certain boat weight and size the lifting effect I understand is limited .Something to do with froude numbers
    I quote this from a naval architecture forum .

    “Another reason you don’t always see lifting strakes running all the way back .Or very pronounced.

    . Boats with a volumetric Froude number less than 4.0 don't need lifting strakes... for example, a 55-foot boat weighing 60,000 pounds should only need strakes if it will go faster than 42 knots. Location and shape, again, is about finding the balance of the design.” [ end quote ]

    Tend to see them running back to the transom / more pronounced, wider on deeper V more performance orientated hulls .

    I realise something like this stuck on the stern underwater section about 2 ft down at the transom on say a San Lorenzo 95 chugging along at 18 knots isn’t gonna create anything .

    930698C6-C88C-44A9-A2B0-3108DCFC5309.jpeg
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2023
  9. AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    When designing a planing hull, you have many things to consider and I have made hulls with zero strakes, with two, four, six and eight. They are all made for speeds up to about 50 knots, cruising 30-40 knots. I can not say any of them are better, they are all doing their specified job... But I have never built a fast boat with traditional shafts, so I can only guess that they create a lift of their own...
  10. Fiammetta42

    Fiammetta42 Member

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    Thanks for the reply s much appreciated as are others btw .

    Yes that’s pretty much what I figured out .Not just the nomenclature “lifting “ .The boat runs very set btw .Nothing , waves , wake seems to take it off track once it up and running .Easy to drive as you hardly need to alter the steering once it’s set .

    What is the physics out of interest of this additional lift ?

    1- Extra Newtonian lift from the flat surface at speeds ?

    2- As the water is deflected over the sharp edge of the strake , accelerated faster by the 30-35 knots and the deep V ( 23 degree deadrise ) the separation as well as reducing drag , the eddies create a pressure zone , decrease the stern suction ? So in effect add back lift .But only in certain circumstances, deep deadrise high ish speeds and not Uber heavy.

    3- air at the disruption zone because they are deliberately pronounced, the air is drawn back some how lift is created as it trips over the sharp edge under water ?

    I can’t quite find exactly how they create lift , wide ones extended far back .

    But it’s widely reported they can add lift in certain circumstances .
    As well as stability etc .
  11. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I think I understand your questions now but I never got that advanced.

    I remember that problem with a Cary I used to run. On the pins, the bow would come down and near get dangerous.
    Lucky for me, I could not afford to run that fast.
    I was starting to get into propeller design, ensuring the wheels were not picking the stern up then I found notes on a stern foil.
    Kept the stern from squatting was the main design theory but keeping the stern down and level at speed interested me.
    Then the boat sold and I never got more into it.

    My Bertram has a tall V all the way back. WOT rarely but the bow is still way up.
    <-----

    They are many other designs out there. This lead was quick and easy to illustrate.
    https://swzmaritime.nl/news/2019/09/19/new-underwater-spoiler-offers-active-pitch-stabilisation/
  12. Fiammetta42

    Fiammetta42 Member

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    That movable hull vane is a great concept Hope it works .

    Reminds me of dynamic suspension on cars , the shock rates adjusted every millionth of a sec ( or what ever ? ) to keep the max contact area of rubber on the road .