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M T f U! I'll do it myself.

Discussion in 'Engines' started by cleanslate, Dec 24, 2022.

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  1. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    We met briefly in Annapolis if you remember? I was there on the boat tied up at the yacht basin.
    Mine are 43 years old . Still run strong.
    I could put this off for a few more years most likely. But want to tackle it now while I’m young (54) lol.
    They are overbuilt simple mechanical engines that are bullet proof and will run for ever if properly operated and maintained. That’s all I’ve ever had in my boats are Detroit’s because that’s what I’m used to and know how to maintain.
    I would never want the newer computerized engines of today in either of my boats . I both inboard gas and Diesel engines which I maintain myself.
    Basically it’s a personal self-confidence and comfort zone for me. Also it’s what I can afford and still maintain an enjoyable boating lifestyle.
  2. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    4C9AF9C1-0628-48FA-A64B-4541406732F9.jpeg ] D5697C5E-896A-4B86-9E0D-88F91E243EBF.jpeg
    The shop I’m dealing with specializes in Detroit diesel work and I’ve been around many years, this includes 71 series marine engines. They have a pretty good parts department and claim they have many of the liners in stock and if not can you get them right away.
    The plan is they’re going to ship me a couple different size liners and I will fit them into each cylinder hole and take notes on which ones fit the best.
    Then I’ll order the appropriate cylinder liners after that.
    They are gonna set up all four liners pistons and rings for me at the shop.
    They will also go over the cylinder head oil pump and anything else I can get in there to check out.
    Most people bring the entire engine to them to overhaul and they put on the Dyno etc. and do a full rebuild.
    Easy to do if you have a sport fisherman. Reach into the cockpit doors and snatch that thing out with a crane not too hard.
    I have a teeny doorway in and out of my boat it’s just too much labor and work to pull the thing out it would have to come out in sections and go back in , in sections.
  3. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    AA54D15C-E868-41B3-BD88-CCD331FE888C.jpeg E3760484-250D-41C5-AB37-7B969954A0C8.jpeg 91DAAC60-97C2-4CF6-9A30-33AD2595C457.jpeg 1980 engine factory reports…
  4. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I'd install block heaters for now and then wait for parts to be a little more plentiful when it needs to be rebuilt.....I've seen some DD's need 2 different liner sizes, depending on each bore.
  5. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    Current numbers early this summer @2000 RPMs. During a run. B3480798-9469-496D-B898-1025248CE907.jpeg
    Tach , water, oil, clutch gages are accurate.
    Volt and fuel gages a work in progress.
  6. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    J , I was thinking the same thing, but they have assured me they have or can get the parts.
    I’ve been obsessed over this for a while and it’s clear to me , like you said, pretty hard to find a good old DD marine mechanic. I’ve exhausted my efforts. Time marches on . I’m the mechanic now. I’m physically able, just need to gain confidence.
    I’m kind of hell bent on doing this , this winter. Just get it done.

    I will heed everyone’s advise , and question them again on the parts availability one more time.
  7. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    Oh , back to my original post.
    Here is what upset me.

    The Detroit shop in Pennsylvania quoted me $15k for an in house major overhaul with Dyno testing .

    yes I understand it way easier to work on the motor in the shop, but it’s sure not close to $29k which is not a major overhaul, nor Dyno tested quote.
  8. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

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    Surprised you are starting those engines without pre-heat. Hard on the engines, not to mention the smoke. Even after complete rebuild my former DD’s would have someone in the marina calling the fire department if I started them up cold. I prefer the block heaters that go into the coolant loop vs. the pads that go on the bottom of the oil pan. Either will work and certainly better than having none though.
  9. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    Lol! Yeah it does smoke , been waiting for the fire truck to show up one day.
    I’ve never knew any better, never had block heaters and usually run the boats when warm out.
    That being said , my port engine fires up quickly even at 45/50 f out with out heaters. And little smoke that goes away quickly . So I have something to compare to.
    But all of you have enlightened me into block heaters and will get them working again and use them in the colder months.
    Since I have two heaters per engine, should I use the 700 watt units verse the 1500 watt units ?
    I want to keep the amp load at the electric panel low.
    700 x 2@ 1400 watt amp draw ? Would be? Per engine.

    1500 x 2 @ 3000 watt amp draw ? Per engine.
    Going off the top of my heat on what watt the heaters come in…
    What should I use in a 471?
  10. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    You need to compare what each includes. Which parts are new, which are reused, which are ignored.

    for instance, the word in frame is often interpreted differently. To some it means rebuilding the engine in place, in the boat. to others it means only replacing parts between the frames, forward and aft. Things like rear and front bearings, camshaft bearings, damper, etc, everything in front and behind the block isn’t touched. For instance last year we did an inframe on the port 16V2000, block stayed in place. This year we did a complete overhaul on the stbd engine and it was stripped to bare block with the front and end removed.

    you need to compare the parts list and details
  11. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

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    As for your block heater size, it comes down to how far in advance you turn them on. The smaller units will take longer to warm the engines obviously. I always turned mine on at least 24 hrs in advance and my engines would get to about 120 degrees.
    I would experiment with yours if you decide to get them all working. Just do some time tests to see what you get. Keep in mind, you obviously don’t need them on once the engines are running. I was always in the habit of turning mine off just before I fired up so I wouldn’t forget.
    For what it’s worth, I always preheat my new C-18’s as well. I’m a firm believer that any engine benefits from preheat. Cranks easier, starts quicker, oil is warm and flows better. I’m not aware of any downside other than a few $$ in electricity. There have also been numerous threads where some leave their block heaters on all winter to prevent and moisture. My CAT dealer said this is totally unnecessary but highly recommend the preheat before starting.
  12. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    If you were to relocate your boat the a place like Bo Bay or the Elk river for the rebuild, that would be closer to the guys you are dealing with in Pensy.

    They would commute to said marina and rebuild in place.

    Not trying to talk you out of it but you could do the dirty work of removing all the stuff hanging on the block and let them do the inside stuff.

    I say this because those guys you are dealing with really stand behind thier work but it is not realistic for them to stand behind your work with thier parts.
  13. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    17 Years ago, we rebuilt my stb main. My boy and I tore down the engine.
    My Detroit shop then fitted the cylinders and rebuilt the long block.
    We installed the exhaust and hang on stuff back on.
    The shop then came back for the start up.
    All was great and the parts were warrantied by my shop.

    CP46 is rite on bringing this up. There is no warranties for DIY rebuilds.
    With these later liner issues, this would be a great plan if your shop will work with you this way.
  14. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    There's a lot of things to know when rebuilding a DD and I'd rather have a shop do them. Even still the warranty sucks and is like 6 months. Quite frankly IF you're mechanical I think I'd recommend putting cummins remans in there.
  15. chesapeake46

    chesapeake46 Senior Member

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    Pretty huge difference in cost there, even if he farms it out.
    I know people have strong opinions about DDs , as do I. But for the way Cleanslate uses his boat, rebuilds could mean another 40 years of operation.
    cleanslate likes this.
  16. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Cummins factory remans come with a two year warranty and don’t cost much more than a quality DD rebuild. I did the math 4 years ago. I paid about $35k for each 435hp 6CTAs with NEW ZF gears. Rebuilding each 8V71 would have been almost the same for a thorough job incl all the ancillaries like starter, alternator, heat exchanger and coolers, etc. plus whatever it costs to rebuild the monster Alison gears.

    yes we had to make new engine beds but that was no big deal. I also have new harnesses, gauges etc. and saved about 3000 lbs of weight.

    it was a no brainer.
  17. DOCKMASTER

    DOCKMASTER Senior Member

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    Not much argument that a full repower would ultimately be better. However, he indicated he only needs to rebuild one engine and that access for R&R is a problem. So the cost delta for a repower vs one rebuild would be substantial.
    cleanslate likes this.
  18. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    Whoa! **** I go away for a minute and look what happens !:) Ain't no way I'm putting new/ remain anything into this boat! The boat is not worth it. Approx., $30k for one Remain Cummins with no gear, new wiring harnesses, new wiring systems Start/stop buttons etc. ; Gear and wiring work, etc . another $15 k..? and some yard to remove old engines and set and fix the new motors another $10k. I say $50-$60k PER engine. This is my boat , my money and money IS an object to me. Remember I'm not a full time Captain with the owners open check book.

    My little DD471's are quite nice . Not bad on the fuel if you go light on the throttle , like any modern marine engine of today. They give my boat plenty of zip (for me) when I want it ,tops out at 21 knots with the tide, cruise 17knots at 2100 rpm. But I'm not running that hard very often. AND I'm really learning all the in's and out's about them. I know them and do not wish to educate myself on a different motor mfg. They both still run , over all like new. I admit the newer motors are quieter, but how ever Ocean Yachts made their fiberglass muffler /water back wash muffler along with short run of rubber and long run of fiberglass exhaust pipe, mine to me, are not that loud.

    My starter, turbo, oil pump, blower, exhaust elbow and manifold, cylinder head, water pump, hoses etc. are all good. I've had the boat 7 years and have taken care of a lot of those things over time.
    These engines are over built and will last a very long time. Longer that most of the new stuff out there.

    I do have an update that will make some of you happy (CR) , including myself. I got the retired J & T fella who was an on site mechanic and latter on service manager out of the old Wildwood office coming to the boat the first week in January so he and I can really go over things and consider my options. I just got a digital inspection camera from HF . I just tried it out , work very well. Has the SD card in it, already to scope all the cylinders with the inspection covers off. I will make room for us to really get in there and look as they are between the block and the fuel tank. Between the two of us, will see if I should go further and do the rebuild. Or look at other issues if things look good with the cylinder wall ,rings,etc...
    This fella was not willing to come out back in the fall due to some health issues, that's why I had a current J & T tech. come out back in the fall. But CR, my new J & T friend and myself got me thinking that my evaluation this fall was pretty weak.

    So, I'm cooling my jets and reevaluate things over the next week or so. Thank you for all of your help and in put. Will see where I go with all of this.
  19. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    That was then, this is now. Your numbers nowadays, for that set up are near double .
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2022
  20. cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    Ya Heard!!..lol...