Marine Batterys

The standard points to the general chemistry, not the specific types. I believe it also defers to approved ratings by the various regulative agencies as well as installations per manufacturer specifications. So, in a sense it sort of punts the ball and makes no real stand other than to open the process for more revisions ultimately to achieve a guideline for insurance.

That's my take from my readings on the topic.

I continue to endeavor to do so, but I am very happy to be very slow with regards to any transitions.

I saw an article last week about lithium batteries not responding well to traditional fire extinguishing agents and requiring a new special type of agent …

Not sure, Mr rtrafford what I said in my post that elicited a response of this nature from you. Yes, we do have various choices we can make regarding the decisions we arrive at. I like to think my choices are based on clear, cogent, compelling and corroborated evidence to support my decisions.
If the above is not met, then it's not time to move forward with change at that time. And yes, I respect your decision that you or anyone else makes regarding choices.

Ive seen a battery fire happen. While they claim the standard extinguisher will put it out, I watched two drain and fail. Basically the battery burned until it had extinguished itself. My theory about storing the small bike batteries aboard in a fire safe is to keep that potential contained long enough for me to get the safe flipped overboard.

So many unknowns here with lithium setups and the heat, salt, vibration, humidity, gyrations of a vessel. I'm nowhere near being comfortable yet.

As I said, agree to disagree. You seem to find comfort in the compelling support of governance regulations. I don't share that warm embrace of public policies. I don't see folks making those decisions that share our best interests as a priority. Even the newest ABYC standards are vague and inconclusive.

You seem to be very comfortable with Canadian rule deciding it's fine, and you seem very comfortable in mocking those that think otherwise. That's all just fine. That's your call.

I'm going to request you re-read my posts in response to the original poster. You clearly are taking liberties in your response that were never implied. Or stated. It is unfortunate you feel the need to jump on people who do not agree with you and those who have had a different experience. Thank you for your response. It is noted.

Maybe you meant to say something different here? I simply responded to you that you're free to disagree, but that now is interpreted on me jumping on you over such a disagreement? Ok,carry on.

New company brand; LiCELL.
Some Aqueous Vermiculite Dispersion (AVD) technology.
licellfire.com

Seems more on the small options fire use, not big battery systems but it's a start.
Another topic I'm reading up on.

Yes that’s the one…. I found it interesting that these batteries require a special agent. Not very reassuring.

when we charge the efoil battery, we usually do it in the ER between the engines and away from anything flammable. I d rather do it outside so we can dump it overboard in case of a fire but it gets too hot in the sun… at least it a made in America not china with a good industrial charger

I would still have it on a metal plate and some of this fancy agent close.
Since nobody can sit and watch it, I'd still be nervous.
Better yet, in a Magma grill on the outside rail, Then dump it if anything happens.

Lifepo batteries are a lot safer than older versions. Between both the composition of the materials and the BMS systems. I've been a Dakota lithium battery dealer for about a year or so now. I have 3 of them in my own boat. Lifepo batteries excel in 4 major areas. 1. weight- they're about 1/3 the weight of the equivalent sized AGM. 2. Power- you can repeatedly draw them down to 10% with no issues, AND voltage stays almost constant so a 100 AH battery actually lasts almost twice as long (capacity) as a 100 AH AGM due to the voltage staying the same, you're not getting more amp draw as the battery bank and voltage wears down. 3. Lifespan- they go 3,000 cycles, which is 6-8x longer lifespan than AGM. 4. Warranty, Dakota offers a 5 year free replacement, 11 year pro-rated warranty. 5. Other advantages include that they take a charge a lot faster than AGM. Now weight generally isn't an issue in yachts, BUT it makes changing them a hell of a lot easier. A group 31 is 29lbs, versus 75+ lbs for an AGM. I've had a few AGM's and lead acids grenade over the years and catch fire too due to bad chargers and alternators. If they're quality batteries I wouldn't be so concerned, if they're off brand chinesium specials from Ebay or Amazon I'd be really worried. Relion, Dakota, Ionic, Lithium hub are all good ones. If anyone needs any Dakota's let me know.

Fires are very rare but still a concern. For an inverter bank they would work amazing on a yacht. Another very slight drawback is they provide almost the same volts fully charged and 20%, so hard to know true capacity unless you have a meter (they sell accurate meters on Amazon for $10 a piece). The bass boat guys have been using them hard for several years now and haven't read about any fires.

The extinguishing agent currently used is simply water, in an attempt to dissipate heat. This is the only known technique. Halon (generally used for electrical fires), dry chemical, CO2 (often used in fixed, "pre-engineered" systems), etc have no effect due to lithium salts self-oxidizing.

Hence the requirement for any battery using lithium-ion chemistry, including lithium iron phosphate, to be enclosed within a fire boundary (typically steel bulkhead or box) & monitored/vented as described before.

Do these fancy batteries require any ventilation?
Or hypothetically could they be stuffed into a fire proof box in case of fire and still function properly?
Are they the same size as a standard wet acid cell battery?

Not ventilation for escaping gasses, but like anything else, they will make some heat while charging.
By the nature of the technology, LI batteries can take all the current you can throw at them while charging. Pending the charger, they can get pretty warm.
The battery monitor can control excessive internal battery heat but there is still heat.
Exact temp I would be poorly guessing at rite now.

My Magnum can throw out 100+amps. The AGM Telecom batteries I use, get pretty warm to my hand touch.

Pending the vendor, I figure the normal battery is close to a 24/27 group battery size.

CR ! I will openly admit, I have to re read you response( along with many others on here) till I understand..lol.
Your post and others are always excellent well worded and well thought out.
Anyway, all good to know and learn about. It’s definitely an interesting technology for boats but the fire hazard part is a problem for me.

Isn’t this the same kind of battery where all those people perished on the dive boat from a simple phone battery or a piece of diving equipment with a battery I forget how that went ??

What you said it before on a different post, I’m going to KISS..
And stick with my 8D wet acid batteries and charger.
I’m lucky my batteries are a straight shot down into the bilge into the battery box not too hard to replace and I get about 5 to 6 years out of them.

Also there’s is the $$ part. I’m sure the new technology batteries are quite expensive as compared to wet acid lead cell batteries. Always something to consider.

Never felt up my batteries during a charge, I’ll have to try that some time.
See how hot they get.

Watch how you type that.


My my IR gun is never close when I need a quick temp reading.

Thank you brother.
It has taken years for some to understand me, some do quickly, others are lost.

Looking at my badge <---
Been learning (LOTS) and trying to help for just over 18 years now.
Much spilled blood in mine and many other bilges also (Fr$^*&ng Coumadin ).

Next, We have been typing about lil batteries for lights, scooters and power tools AND big batteries for ships systems.
I feel caution should go to both sized battery technologies equally.

I assume the Ion -lithium batteries are also capable of starting up the main engines , generators and what not?