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War on Diesel?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by rtrafford, Jun 15, 2022.

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  1. leeky, Jun 16, 2022
    #21
    leeky

    leeky Senior Member

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    This thread is in the "YachtForums Yacht Club" forum, and, therefore, nothing is irrelevant. This forum was created to allow "Off-Topic Scuttlebutt." My only advice is to be gentle with the politicians that you want to blame, or the whiners on YF will have this thread shut down.:rolleyes:
  2. mapism, Jun 17, 2022
    #22
    mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Dream on.

    As an external observer, I'm always surprised by how clearly most folks in the US are polarized to the point of always praising whoever they support and blame whoever they don't, regardless of what these politicians actually do.
    And even more importantly, with total disrespect of whether at any point in time they are pursuing the best possible course of action or not, realistically.
    Everyone and their dog seem to think that they (or their preferred political side) could do better than anyone else.
    As if, more often than not, history didn't already prove the opposite, beyond any reasonable doubt... :confused:
    cleanslate, captholli and Riknpat like this.
  3. cleanslate, Jun 17, 2022
    #23
    cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    Hmmm...price of oil has remained the same since March 2022.
    Yet fuel prices keep going up.
    All the while the big oil companies are making and breaking record quarterly profits.

    The oil companies control the ENTIRE fuel game. Not the Office of the President of the United States. Sorry to say, It's just not that powerful. Doesn't matter who's in office, it will always wax and wane.

    The last guy inherited a booming economy , and low fuel prices during his term due to the COVID shut down and low demand for fuel. Had nothing to do with him or his administration.
    They would still be high now even if he was in office.
    Simple ''supply and demand'' theory.

    Demand is way up now ,we along with fuel dependent equipment, are back to work . Supply is low, production is low, collective price gouging by the ''real '' powers to be is up. Hence the high fuel prices.

    The prices will start to go down again, not sure when like the rest of you, but hopefully soon.

    The posted Negativity make me Sea Sick.
    d_meister likes this.
  4. Capt Ralph, Jun 17, 2022
    #24
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    My friend, Please take this with my kindness and smiles;
    If you don't like the postings, please change the channel before you get sick.
    Cabinboy and R Carnes like this.
  5. motoryachtlover, Jun 17, 2022
    #25
    motoryachtlover

    motoryachtlover Senior Member

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    I agree with you that fuel prices would be higher now irregardless of who was in office but I think it is undeniable (due to our Presidents publicly spoken comments) that fuel prices are significantly higher due to his attitude towards the petroleum industry and his actions taken regarding pipelines and drilling. As I understand it a significant part of the high prices of petroleum is due to limited refining capacity. Some are closing refineries in one instance due to a billion dollars to update and maintain the facility. Who in there right mind will want to spend huge money to update a refinery and/or build a new one when the administration states that their goal is to get rid of our reliance of fossil fuels. Even a monkey knows not to release one branch till the other branch is in reach. I took that line from someone else but thought it was illustrative. Why are we making an abrupt transition from fossil fuels to electrification when we don’t have the grid or the electric production capability in place. Irregardless of party that is just a dumb move to put it mildly. Do any of these anti fossil fuel people realize how dirty and Environmentally damaging making all these batteries and solar panels are? Another problem is a large part of our society wants all the convenience of modern living but has no idea of what that entails. It entails ugly industries such as chemical, petroleum, large trucks, sewer systems, air conditioning etc. It also requires ugly people to do these jobs. The dirty Walmart people. Let the blue collar take a month off and some would quickly change their tune. These industries require facilities that need to be located somewhere but yet no one wants them near them. You would be surprised at the reaction large trucks will get from some people. But I bet if you asked them would they want their home built with no large trucks and saw the price difference they would say bring on the large trucks. My point is that there is a large part of America that is seeing in real time the costs of reckless environmentalism. I hate to see it but maybe parts of the nation needs to feel some pain so they can realize the folly of their ideology when taken to extremes.
    Chris229, Capt Ralph, vacser and 5 others like this.
  6. rtrafford, Jun 18, 2022
    #26
    rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    You're taking facts and discarding them. We had a POTUS tell us he would end coal. We had a POTUS tell us that fuel and energy prices would necessarily skyrocket. We had a POTUS tell us that there was nothing he could do about rising fuel prices yet took measures that would ensure that rise. We have states eliminating service plazas with pumps on turnpikes and replacing them with charging stations run by small solar farms.

    Meanwhile Germany is building new coal plants. No refineries are allowed to be built here. No one is begging anyone to pump more crude anywhere, rather that's all for show. While you can believe all politicians are the same, that no POTUS could direct a different outcome, while you deflect that low prices were COVID driven, a useful alibi, there's a strong contrasting debate that could take place proving neither side could provide meaningful data to support such a claim.

    Quarterly profits increase significantly on price increases. The larger those increases the more a percentage of income translates into larger profits. Same argument can be made about sales tax on basic fuel sales, the higher the price the higher the tax percentage translates into record revenues. Yet to see a state transparently add additional tax to fuel at a time that food prices are rising, inflation is increasing, and tax revenues have never been higher...well, if the outcome is fait accompli, then why are they trying so hard to make certain prices go up?

    Lots of holes in your perspective to be considered. Not suggesting my own is flawless, but I'm not shrugging my shoulders and accepting what is coming my way. Why? Because I think I know better given the action, details and data that I see.
    vacser, IWish and MBevins like this.
  7. rtrafford, Jun 18, 2022
    #27
    rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Which is why, I think, that discussions like this are important. They need to remain respectful, but they need to occur without fear of damaging frail feelings.
  8. rtrafford, Jun 18, 2022
    #28
    rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    I'm just not certain I can get to a place where I agree that prices would be higher right now. Keystone would be online, and permits wouldn't be restricted by inabilities to transport product. I don't think the war in Ukraine would be globally meaningful enough to create a spike here at home. A mild fluctuation? Yes, that's always going to happen. Much like the weather, just because today is hotter than a year ago on the same dock doesn't mean my old diesel is the culprit for the change. I think the quake in Fukushima that shifted the global axis several feet played a much larger role than my Detroits.

    One thing is seemingly for certain, and that is we had a POTUS that appeared to be trying in our favor. We now have one that is yelling at us and telling us to get over it and accept the outcome and the change he is requiring of us. No words can erase that contrast. If one is to mildly accept the events as inevitable, they'll find it a pretty dark day when they wake up on one future morning with a realization that it wasn't inevitable, that there was something that could have been done had they acted earlier.

    Yes, we pick our battles in life, but we never have to simply accept outcomes that come our way that are in contrast to what we see as our own best interests. If you put up no challenge to those events creating those outcomes, well, you've forfeited your own free will. Perhaps that's what this is actually all about?
    R Carnes likes this.
  9. Scott W, Jun 18, 2022
    #29
    Scott W

    Scott W Senior Member

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    Yep. The boating industry - commercial and recreational - is seeing a sequence of events unfold that while perhaps short of an existential crisis, clearly has the potential to remake - and shrink - the industry in a way that hasn't been seen since the 1970's energy crisis. The changes could be profound and I am a bit surprised it isn't getting more (public) discussion in boating circles, not just on this forum but in all the marine forums and trade publications. And this is all happening in the absence of a recession..or at least one that has begun in earnest. The near-term economic landscape looks bleak for people who work and recreate on the water. But, it's the longer-term energy landscape that may be where the real threat lies. It's tough to see modest industry growth, much less robust industry growth, when people have shrinking discretionary income while at the same time, there is growing regulatory hostility to the fuel supply the industry is so dependent on.
  10. RER, Jun 18, 2022
    #30
    RER

    RER Senior Member

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    I think the results of this “sequence of events” is the final nail in the coffin for mid market boating. The 50’ Carvers and Sea Rays and the like had already dropped out. That market will go from shrinking to extinction I think.
    The small outboard market will continue to be the segment with any chance of sustainment or growth.
    The big boat market is I think an unknown. There will always be wealthy people. But economic and societal changes can affect their perspectives even if it doesn’t affect their bank account. When it comes to “yacht” ownership they may simply find the juice isn’t worth the squeeze.
    bayoubud and Scott W like this.
  11. jamesccook, Jun 21, 2022
    #31
    jamesccook

    jamesccook New Member

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    They fully expect to control the elections
  12. bayoubud, Jun 22, 2022
    #32
    bayoubud

    bayoubud Senior Member

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    Well said, we have just decided to put buying another boat on hold. I'm sure we are not the only ones doing so.
    "The juice isn't worth the squeeze!"
  13. motoryachtlover, Jun 22, 2022
    #33
    motoryachtlover

    motoryachtlover Senior Member

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    The radio says just today that Jerome Powell apparently agrees with rtrafford. He said that he does not think that the war in Ukraine is significant contributor to the present inflation. (Paraphrasing)
  14. rtrafford, Jun 22, 2022
    #34
    rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    It's ironic to like a post that you dislike so much......
    RER likes this.
  15. rtrafford, Jun 22, 2022
    #35
    rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    ....acting as if this is all about being "green" and as if it matters where the oil drill or pump is located, or where the car exhaust or factory smoke stack is located on the planet. Many countries world wide are back to heavy use of coal. We're still chasing wind.
  16. rtrafford, Jun 23, 2022
    #36
    rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Notified that glass prices are all increasing significantly, including a 21% fuel surcharge. Can't blame Russia.
  17. RER, Jun 23, 2022
    #37
    RER

    RER Senior Member

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  18. Pascal, Jun 23, 2022
    #38
    Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    To quote the chief of staff of a previous democrat president : never let a crisis go to waste.

    the current administration has confessed that they intend on using the higher fuel prices to push solar and wind as well as electric vehicle. It’s apart of the plan. Meanwhile the chicoms, Russia, India etc continue to pollute at will and getting a boost from cheaper conventional energy
  19. Capt Ralph, Jun 23, 2022
    #39
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I had to borrow this from another web site;
    79AFB896-8F4E-42B7-B579-32531A5540D2.jpg
  20. SplashFl, Jun 23, 2022
    #40
    SplashFl

    SplashFl Active Member

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    History will show these were just a few "stormy" years.
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