Boat damage who's responsible?

There is NO liability insurance available to cover an independant Captain to run other people's yachts. It does not exist. How is it a great deal for Captains? If you hire an employee as an operator of anything, airplane, tractor trailer, bull dozer, and something happens, it is on the person who hired that employee. Coca Cola doesn't make it's truck driver pay for the car they accidentally hit. It's up to Coca Cola to screen the driver before they hire him/her. Much higher majority of owners do more insurance losses than professional Captains do by a wide percentage.

There are some Captains operating as Yacht Management LLC's operating boats, managing maintenance, and doing deliveries. You would think they would have to be licensed and insured same as any other company offering services. If hired as an individual they would likely be classified as an employee which puts the responsibility on the boat owner. Would be best to have an agreement in writing. As OB said, always submit names of any that might operate your boat to your insurance company.

And we are insured ($2M) for these maintance and managment services but moving or operating the boat is on the owner and the boats insurance company.

I've gotten my answer, thanks. But I've said repeatedly that I was not talking about an employee/employer relationship. In that case the employer's responsibility is much more obvious. I was talking specifically about contracting a captain for a fee (to move a boat for example). In my mind those are two very different things. But, as Old Boater pointed out, in the case of captains and owners they are not different.

Why do I think it's a good deal??? Because, in the specific case of being independently contracted to captain a vessel (on delivery for example), you seemingly bare no liability for your negligence (other than gross negligence). I am more familiar with professions where the professional bares financial responsibility for his mistakes, not the client for whom the job was to be performed. In the case of captains and owners, it would appear it falls solely to the owner to vet the captain and insure the risk. If the captain fails to perform, all financial liability falls to owner. Old Boater makes the case for why the arrangement is good. I'm not sure I buy it. But none of us invented this set-up and I presume it evolved for a reason. So be it. Good to know.

In the end it is what it is. But it's not intuitive. I think it would be easy for someone like myself to assume that contracting a captain to move a boat is a lot like contracting any other professional. But as it turns out, it's actually VERY different. And we don't all have legal departments we can float this stuff by. And as for insurance companies, good luck with the 800# and getting any kind of useful answers. I guess that's why I've got Yachtforums...

So, boat operation is done only on a personal basis with the owner? Captain has no personal liability for damages while operating the vessel?

The captain has already been authorized to operate the boat by the owner, this usally includes approval from the insurance company also.
I know when customers asked their insurance company about me, some already knew who I was and did not require another info pac. Never had an issue and all was happy.
With that same thought, the insurance company COULD have a black list also.
I have never thought much about that till just now, but if an operator is approved, could some issues be on the insurance company?

More or less, correct.

Now, I have been ask directly about other captains or to recommend another captain/crew if we could not be of help. I have only offered the names of our group. When pressed about another name beyond our list, we would just point out that name was not on our list..
Most folks understood this.

That typed,,,,, word of mouth puts most captains to work.
A bad reference is a bad refferance. Usally nobody wants to pass a bad reference, So, how did the owner find the bad captain?

Good point, if they approve operator their policy pays for damages. Hopefully the owner would not be handicapped with higher premiums. I suspect the insurance companies definitely have a black list!

It would be helpfull to all if they did. But I'm from the swamp and don't trust them (insurance companies) much to begine with.
Sometimes good ideas are just to simple for the suits to get involved with or be responsible for.

Get a C L U E, Ralph. lol. C L U E is Comprehensive Loss Underwriting Exchange, run by LexisNexis. Primarily auto and property but they also collect marine claims. LexisNexis has a massive database of everything you might imagine. Think of your credit report and then think of every piece of information about you that is not included in it.

There are also other similar services but they are largest.

No. Just as if you hired a truck drive, pilot or any other driver of your vehicle. Your insurance should have crew coverage on it. Just as your insurance needs to approve who runs your vessel (above a small boat). How would a Captain get insurance that covers 100 different boats a year that I run. They don't know the maintenance history, what condition each boat is in, what it's value should've been if it's a total loss, if it's seaworthy, etc. etc...... It is considered a vehicle. No different than if you tell your brother he can borrow your car and gets in an accident.

I think this discussion is about a problem which doesn’t really exist. How many boats are damaged every year from reckless professional paid license captains? Very few and in most cases it is probably not the captains fault. Again, things happen

In 15 years since I started doing this professionally I can remember one instance where I scratched a boat... $500 gel coat repair caused by a BIG nail sticking out of a piling, which was invisible at night.

this whole discussion is based on a very vague, somewhat self contradictory story by someone who isn’t even the owner of the vessel! Second or third party here say...

J, a general liability insurance policy held by the captain as a contractor (unless he is a full time employee) covering the boat owner for losses caused by the captain during the temporary operation of the boat. The owner's insurance will cover most of cost, but there are deductibles and expenses that cost the owner. How else would the owner be re-imbursed for damages?

The owner reimbursed? Ha.
Ship happens. The owner will take it like a boat owner, if he feels it was the captains fault, he will get another captain.
Owner will also be responsible for him for the next boo boo.

THIS. General liability does not cover usage of the boat. It covers repairs on the boat. Usage of the boat is covered by a seperate policy, the owners. The owner is responsible for the deductable, just like the size of his deductable is decided by him.

Now we know how the system works.

Sure we can all make mistakes or get into a situation where minor cosmetic damage can happen. When you put on 400, 500 hours or more a year, sooner or later something will happen.

My comment about the third party story was about the yard issues which sound very far fetched