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Waveless Stab stabilizers

Discussion in 'Stabs, Tabs & Gyros' started by JadePanama, Feb 12, 2021.

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  1. rtrafford, Feb 15, 2021
    #21
    rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    But why not merely seek to upgrade the hydraulic system itself via fins and command unit as opposed to converting an existing hydraulic system to electric?
  2. rtrafford, Feb 15, 2021
    #22
    rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Perhaps I'm hijacking the thread by focusing on the concept of conversion from an existing hydraulic to an electric system.
  3. Capt J, Feb 15, 2021
    #23
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    He doesn't already have stabilizers, it's a new install. Electric is supposed to actuate faster than hydraulic.
  4. leeky, Feb 15, 2021
    #24
    leeky

    leeky Senior Member

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    I can't find Side-Power's electric fins. All I can find are Side-Power's hydraulically-actuated fins. Do you have a link to the electric fins?
  5. rtrafford, Feb 15, 2021
    #25
    rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Ok, I need to learn. My experience was that "electric stabilizers" were operated by an electric hydraulic pump that sat apart from the mains. I guess I'm at the back of the class on this...
  6. Capt J, Feb 15, 2021
    #26
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    They were on the Siepner website (parent company of sidepower). For some reason the website has issues right now.

    Electric fins have no Hydraulic at all, they use Electric motors/actuators to move the fins.
  7. boatpoor, Feb 15, 2021
    #27
    boatpoor

    boatpoor Active Member

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    Electric motors have much less torque at low rpms than they do at higher rpm, even AC motors with VFD's. I don't have stabilizers on my boat but if I needed torque at low rpms from any system it wouldn't be electric.
  8. leeky, Feb 15, 2021
    #28
    leeky

    leeky Senior Member

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    Tesla would beg to differ with you. Electric motors have full torque from zero RPM.
  9. mapism, Feb 15, 2021
    #29
    mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Boatpoor, aside from being wrong also from a theoretical viewpoint (as leeky already mentioned), I assume that you never went snorkeling around a boat anchored with electric fins turned on, to see how they work in practice.
    So, here's a strong recommendation for you: whenever you'll have an opportunity to do that, do NOT go anywhere near them.
    The speed at which they can shift from standstill to their maximum rotation must be seen to be believed.
    They could literally kill someone swimming close enough to be hit by them.
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2021
  10. leeky, Feb 15, 2021
    #30
    leeky

    leeky Senior Member

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    I can't find a Sleipner website that "talks" about stabilizers, but Side-Power's website states that they're rebranding to Sleipner. What's the website that you say is having issues?
  11. mapism, Feb 15, 2021
    #31
    mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    The Sleipner website does have a fins stabs section (click).
    And it seems to be working just fine, but there's no mention of any electrical evolution of their fins.
    I also checked a few other European websites where all new products are mentioned, also when still just at announcement stage, but couldn't find them.

    Capt J, aren't you possibly mixing them up with Humphree, which are mostly known for their interceptors but also entered in the fin stabs market with a fully electric system?
    Whose actuators are in fact similar to CMC ones, albeit much more limited in size, because they can "only" drive fins up to 1.50 square meters, as opposed to 4.50 (no less!) of CMC. Which btw are in another league also compared to Sleipner, whose fins are theoretically available up to 2 sqm, but I'm not aware of any of their installations above 1.50.
  12. Pascal, Feb 16, 2021
    #32
    Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Wrong. Electric motors produce max torque as soon they start turning.
  13. Capt J, Feb 16, 2021
    #33
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    There was a full electric line on their site 2 months ago when I previously looked at it. It's not showing now. I think it was on the side-power site. But don't see them now.
  14. JadePanama, Feb 23, 2021
    #34
    JadePanama

    JadePanama Member

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    Wow. I step away to Ixtapa for a week, and missed a ton of great info! @mapism... thanks so much for the info as well as @CaptJ. This is a new boat to us (2011 56' Californian LRC)... which is just a Navigator hull. We moved to this from a 30 yr old 60' Tollycraft which was much heavier and more seaworthy. While we boat only in Puget Sound, it can get pretty gnarly at times especially the Straights so thinking adding stabs would be a nice addition to a boat that really has everything else that was on my dream list for at least the next 5-8 years while we are located here in the PNW. In our search we were on a few vessels that were stabilized and having never been on one before I (and more importantly my wife) were stunned by the difference.

    I will look closer at the CMC Waveless Stab system. It seems like a great fit. Just need to find someone to assess what structural reinforcements would need to be done for the install.

    Thx all --

    JP
  15. Peter Andrew, Jun 20, 2021
    #35
    Peter Andrew

    Peter Andrew New Member

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    Hi all, I’m a new member with a Swift Trawler 52 that I would like to add some form of stabilisation.
    I’m looking at a gyro (Quick MC X19), Magnus tubes (RotorSwing), and fins (CMC) - all electric.
    It is important that we have zero speed as well as under way stabilisation - we spend a lot of time on the hook!
    There are pros and cons about them all, weight and hull reinforcement for the gyro, relative new tech with the RotorSwings. The electric Waveless stabs from CMC seem a good compromise, still needs hull strengthening but can integrate them into the existing 24v/240v electrical systems.
    I would like to run them through the inverter on the move and with the generator on anchor.
    I’ve read the string above - any first hand info on the Waveless stabs or the other 2 would be great.
    Thanks
    Pete
  16. Capt J, Jun 20, 2021
    #36
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    If you're going to go gyro, go seakeeper. Quick is air cooled and that presents A LOT of heat related challenges. You basically need to air condition the unit. Gyro's work well anchored and up to hull speed, they only help about 20% over nothing at all above hull speed.

    I'm not familiar with the CMC fins, but I believe they're curved. I have a lot of experience with the side power curved fins and they were the best in every aspect, including anchored over a gyro.....they were incredible fins.
  17. Peter Andrew, Jun 21, 2021
    #37
    Peter Andrew

    Peter Andrew New Member

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    Thanks Capt J, I will look into the heat issue with the gyro. I’ve looked at the Seakeeper as well but it takes up too much space.
    I think some form of fin is probably the favoured solution - less weight etc. CMC Waveless stabs are straight fins as I am aware. I have just got in touch with Sleipner (Side Power) regarding their vector fins you mention. Hopefully I can find a solution between these two. Thx P
  18. Capt J, Jun 21, 2021
    #38
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The installations I've seen with the Quick required an A/C duct blowing directly on the unit. Otherwise they'd overheat the space they're mounted in and de-rate to 50% power.
  19. mapism, Jun 21, 2021
    #39
    mapism

    mapism Senior Member

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    Yes they are, but don't be mislead, ALL fins systems are very effective, whether curved or not.
    You will hear that curved ones are better from two sources: one is Sleipner, which is hardly surprising of course. And the second are folks with some kind of vested interest with them.
    If you look for scientific tests of some kind comparing (with the same boat, same conditions, same fin size, etc.) straight vs. curved fins, you will find none.
    OTOH, as a matter of fact ALL very large yachts are equipped with straight fins, also because the largest curved fins available from Sleipner are less than half the size of those produced by CMC (and also ABT and Naiad, by the way).
    So, if curved fins would be as good as Sleipner pretend they are, why aren't they building and selling them to the upper segment of the market, which is where money is no object?

    Regardless, all that aside, going for electric rather than hydraulic is a total no brainer when retrofitting, due to the much lower complexity of the whole system.
    In fact, while CMC was the first to start building electrically actuated fins, several other builders are now following.
    In your boots, I'd rather check out and compare some other electric fins on top of CMC, without wasting any time with an hydraulic installation, also because I don't think you already have (and neither need) any other complex hydraulic systems onboard an ST52.
    Talking of which, I'd rather have fins than ANY gyro, on a boat like yours.
  20. Peter Andrew, Jun 21, 2021
    #40
    Peter Andrew

    Peter Andrew New Member

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    Thanks to you both. With the added information of the heat generated by the gyro, it confirms my preference for a fin system. I do have a hydraulic tender system on board - a Prestolift 500, but my preference is for an electric fin system. I’m working with CMC at the moment - let’s see where it takes me.
    I’ll let you know. P
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