Another case of Italian boats impracticality

The European manufacturers took over the design of boats back in the 1990's with the useless swept back windshields that gather weather and reflect the dash and sleek lines that look pretty at the cost of interior space. We went for it so why would they take advice from us now? People today want more speed and a look that appeals to the wife at the boat show. Function takes a distant 3rd place. Do you happen to have a pic of this situation?

Boy would you love a story I have about my wife taking pics of Billy Joel.
But the boat looks so pretty. You wouldn't want to mess with that for something so mundane as safety.

I agree with Pascal here. On all of the European boats that I run, English included, boarding is never a thought in the design for the American market. We mostly dock side to and there is nowhere to safely board that way. Nowhere to easily step onto the boat. I can't think of a single brand where you can. Not Feretti, not Azimut, not Princess, not Sunseeker, etc etc...... At least with a SF there is a way to do that due to the climbing height of the side gunnel.

As for the SF, 98% of them never anchor, or if they anchor it's 1 time per year. That can easily be solved by standing on the foward berth with the top half of your body sticking out of the deck hatch. Generally the only other time someone is on the bow is in calm water when docking. Of all of the SF I've run, I've never had anyone fall off. Now, if an owner plans to use the bow for anything more than a decoration they order the boat with a bow rail or have one installed.

Full disclaimer here...I'm not a captain, only an owner/operator so my experience is limited to me, myself and I.

With that said, I wanted to interject my $0.02 in case there is another me out there that searches the interwebs looking for data while making their purchasing decision.

Saying it's an Italian and/or European thing isn't totally accurate. It's an owner thing. Owner's need to be honest with themselves regarding what the end use of their boats will be. When we were researching the 'big boat', we used the following parameters (just a snippet of the overall list but these are pertinent to this topic):

• Italian/European Design (we have to like how it looks)
• Enclosed bulwarks
• Side boarding doors
• Hydraulic passerelle/tender crane
• Flybridge davit crane
• Stand up engine room (I'm 6'1")

Initially, we were looking in the 60-65' range and we couldn't find anything that checked the boxes we really needed which were the ingress/egress/exterior safety items. With two dogs, aging parents, grand parents, and future children, we needed to reassess everything. So ultimately, we had to go bigger/older. We knew what our current boat didn't offer (larger express cruiser) and what we couldn't compromise on for the next purchase.

Sorry for the long winded reply. For the searchers out there, you can find a adequate size Italian boat with side entry (or 4 in our case) and more US practicality.

HAHA! @mapism I struggled for a bit posting that...good thing we're leaving the country in a few hours for a month...hopefully the pitchforks and torches will be too heavy and burn out by the time we return for closing.

In all seriousness, with the amount of research I did prior to deciding on this one, I spent a ton of time reading posts here and it almost deterred me from the brand. I know Azimuts aren't for the majority here but this one checked more boxes for us than other brands.

"...European builders refuse to adapt their boats for the US market". Wouldn't what sells be the "U.S. market"? Isn't that what capitalism is all about? If the U.S. market didn't want what you and I consider lousy designs they wouldn't buy them, but they do. Face it, the U.S. and world market is what's pretty. Function is for the crew to figure out and deal with. It's the same up and down the choices the American consumers and citizens make every day. We don't demand substance. We only care about pretty.

There's an underlying assumption in your posts that European builders have an obligation to redesign their boats to fit the US market. They have made changes where deemed appropriate and desirable to both markets as upper galleys would be the biggest example. They do offer dual electric systems.

However, it goes further, you can't really compare Riva to any US boat, because there's no US competition. What you're really talking about is sports boats or performance boats. The 88' Riva runs WOT at 40 knots and cruises at 35 knots. No US production boats that do that.

As to ingress and egress, it's not good. Neither is access to bow lines on smaller boats where there's really no way to get to the bow. Locking through the Okeechobee you plan in advance with both fenders and with lines you can handle from the helm. That's also what an owner of an 88' should do is plan in advance. You use the small rail in the inside of the steps. The teak platform is really fairly good about anti-slippage. And, don't dismiss the passarelle and say it can't be used. It can be, just typically wouldn't need to be. We have a 63' Riva with the exact same set up as the 88'. We are careful and we assist people on and off, a lot of hand holding when required. Every owner, every captain, should be aware of the limitations and take necessary precautions. I don't know of a simple way to redesign the boat to make it easier. We've really not found it to be a significant problem but it's something we do take into proper consideration.

Sunseeker, I'd put in a little different area as they are not performance sport boats, with the exception of the new XPS model. We owned a Manhattan 65 and it was, if anything, more difficult than the Riva is. Add to that, it carried a RIB on the platform so limited space more. Now it's plus was a larger platform. It's design and aesthetics, I believe, would have accommodated a side boarding gate. Challenging boarding and un-boarding but we handled it carefully and safely.

Every boat has pluses and minuses and we learn to live with them. There is a large boating market outside the US too and European models already do a lot to accommodate US buyers. I don't see a simple solution on the 88' Riva, nor having used a 63' Riva for 8 years do I see it as a major issue, just a drawback of the design. We had a 67 year old man and 65 year old woman on our 63' on Sunday and both boarded without any problem, but we did assist them in so doing. They thought nothing of it as they've done it many times. As to ladylike, we really don't think of that in boating.

Riva still sells primarily for Mediterranean boaters. Not all that easy to board there either as most do not use the passarelle but simply go from platform to dock and platform to dock on the stern is in some ways more difficult than to side dock. as more of a challenge keeping the distance constant. Still a need for hand holding.

Just Azimut's post sort of confirms my comments too that it's not a matter of European as much as style boat.

Rub rails, I definitely prefer and I'd prefer larger over smaller. Without, I'm not accepting a slip too narrow to allow fenders on entry, but the vast majority of my transient docking is side tie.

I guess the reality is all boats are different and as owners we do adapt to any shortcomings the boats we own have. We also should be very aware of any potential safety issues and address to avoid.

The last boat I captained before retiring was a 1981 56' Hatteras FBMY. I can't think of a more iconic American boat than that. Docking at a floating dock or even a fixed dock at high tide required me to jump down 5' to put lines on the dock and then haul myself back up the 5'. I broke my leg and foot when I slipped stepping onto the swim platform of a 46' Sea Ray Dancer (another very American brand) because the nonskid doesn't go all the way to the edge. Europeans have no lock on the inaccessibility market. As Olderboater pointed out crew or owners should never let a non-boater board without a helping hand.

If I had a dollar for everytime I or one of our friends took an unexpected swim while boarding or off loading our SR480 (without tide swings), I could have afforded something better than an Azimut.

Well, it bears repeating, Azimut in Europe vs. Azimut in the US are two very different matters and the major difference is the service provided by the company, warranty and non-warranty. In the US, it is 100% turned over to Marine Max to administer so they're both the service provider and the overseer with Azimut removed entirely from the process. Historically, Marine Max has not provided good service on them. There are exceptions with some acquired dealers in the NE but even those are subject to Marine Max limitations and they're driven by the dollars coming out of their pockets. I repeatedly have heard Azimut and their service praised in Europe. I also know there are many happy owners in the US but far too many to have had issues and difficulty getting those issues fixed in a reasonable time period.