Click for JetForums Click for Furuno Click for Perko Click for Northern Lights Click for Delta

Another boat fire in Fort Lauderdale

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by Norseman, Oct 15, 2020.

You need to be registered and signed in to view this content.
Page 2 of 7
  1. Norseman, Oct 16, 2020
    #21
    Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,100
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale
    Possible an illegal charter, hence the red flags.
    Lots of those in South Florida and the CG has been busy catching them the last few years.
    In this case they may be innocent, as in a private pleasure trip with family and friends. Innocent until proven guilty, but I bet Sector Miami is looking into it as we speak.
  2. Capt J, Oct 16, 2020
    #22
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,524
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I don't know where you could even fit 21 passengers on that size vessel. Just absolutely cramped like sardines. It's a Searay sundancer style of boat, not a big 41' center console with a lot of open deck space. People on the foredeck block visibility for the Captain and the cockpit area is not that big. In comparison, I had 23 or 24 people on a 43' Tiara LS one time, we had exterior seating for everyone comfortable and plenty of deck space and nobody was even crowded (as well as lifejackets).

    Inboard gas boats are the most risky and by far of propulsion types for both explosions and carbon monoxide poisoning. Not to say that they can't be safe, but older ones are generally neglected, or even on the well maintained ones given this age, the fuel tank could just start leaking while underway.

    There isn't a gas dock anywhere near where they ended up.
  3. Norseman, Oct 16, 2020
    #23
    Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,100
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale
    Here is recent CG activity on illegal charters:

    Coast Guard halts 2 illegal charter operations over holiday weekend near Miami

    News Release



    MIAMI — The Coast Guard terminated two illegal charters over the holiday weekend near Miami.

    A Coast Guard Station Miami Beach 33-foot Special Purpose Craft—Law Enforcement boarding team conducted a boarding of a 24-foot pleasure craft Saturday with eight passengers aboard and discovered the following violations:

    • Violation of 46 C.F.R. 176.100(a) for not having a valid Certificate of Inspection.

    • Violation of 46 C.F.R. 15.515(b) for not having a credentialed mariner in control while operating as a small passenger vessel.

    • Violation of 46 C.F.R. 170.120 for failure to have a valid stability letter.

    • Violation of 46 C.F.R. 16.201 for failure to have a drug and alcohol program.

    • Violation of 46 C.F.R. 15.401(a) for failure to employ an appropriately credentialed mariner.

    A Coast Guard Station Miami Beach 33-foot Special Purpose Craft—Law Enforcement boarding team conducted a boarding of a 22-foot pontoon boat Sunday with four passengers aboard and discovered the following violations:

    • Violation of 46 C.F.R. 16.201 for failure to have a drug and alcohol program.

    • Violation of 46 C.F.R. 24.05 for operating as an uninspected passenger vessel.

    • Violation of 46 C.F.R. 15.605 for failure of having a credentialed operator in control of an uninspected passenger vessel.

    • Violation of 46 C.F.R. 25.25(c) for operation of a vessel carrying passengers for hire without the approved type of personal flotation devices.

    • Violation of 33 C.F.R. 160.105 for violation of a Captain of the Port order.

    "Before you step aboard a vessel ask to see the captain’s credentials and their vessel’s certificate of inspection to ensure the vessel has all the required safety equipment required aboard in case of an emergency," said Chief Warrant Officer Michael Micucci, marine investigating officer, Coast Guard Sector Miami. “Illegal charters can be dangerous with unqualified and untrained operators unaware of what to do in maritime emergency situations.”

    Owners and operators of illegal passenger vessels can face maximum civil penalties of: $60,000 or over for illegal passenger-for-hire-operations. Charters that violate a Captain of the Port Order can face over $95,000. Some potential civil penalties for illegally operating a passenger vessel are:

    • Up to $7,846 for failure of operators to be enrolled in a chemical testing program.

    • Up to $4,888 for failure to provide a Coast Guard Certificate of Inspection for vessels carrying more than six passengers for hire.

    • Up to $16,687 for failure to produce a valid Certificate of Documentation for vessels over 5 gross tons.

    • Up to $12,219 for failure to have been issued a valid Stability Letter prior to placing vessel in service with more than passengers for hire.

    • Up to $95,881 for every day of failure to comply with a Captain of the Port Order.
  4. Hatterized, Oct 16, 2020
    #24
    Hatterized

    Hatterized Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2018
    Messages:
    73
    Location:
    Annapolis & St. Pete
    Personally, as far as i am concerned, 21 aboard is too many for that size boat, and i also am curious if they had 21 PFD's (of proper size). The old adage, "better to be safe than sorry"
    The more on any boat the more the safety risks come into play.
  5. NYCAP123, Oct 16, 2020
    #25
    NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,208
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    If that's an illegal charter I'm surprised the captain managed to pass the test being so stupid. Hopefully he'd never see the light of day again. You guys know the people in Florida better than I do. Are there captains there that stupid?

    J, 21 people can easily occupy that boat. Been to a south Florida bar lately? Shoulder to shoulder is considered still room for more. I suspect if you go to Haulover on a sunny Saturday you'll find more than a few boats loaded like that.
  6. NYCAP123, Oct 16, 2020
    #26
    NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,208
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Of course it is, but what can you do. Being stupid isn't illegal. Take a look at your boat. Then take a look for that little placard that states the passenger capacity (like the one you'll find on every 16').
  7. MBevins, Oct 16, 2020
    #27
    MBevins

    MBevins Senior Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
    Messages:
    1,225
    Location:
    Windsor On. Canada
    My mistake, I assumed that as it was tied it was at a fuel dock.
    Big booms and fueling usually go hand in hand
  8. Norseman, Oct 16, 2020
    #28
    Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,100
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale
    Therein lies da problem: Some of these so-called Captains don’t have no license: They buy an old boat and advertise charters on Craig’s List, voila, you are in business. :confused:
  9. Pascal, Oct 16, 2020
    #29
    Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,541
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    Yes you can fit 21 people of a 41 express. Half in the cockpit and half on the foredeck. Would you want to be on board? Probably not.

    Once again, yes onboard gas boats can be safe but the right equipment and preventive maintenance. Unfortunately this is rarely the case on such older boats hence the Frequent accidents. People by a 20 year gas inboard and don’t know anything about the precaution they need to take.

    as to being to stupid to pass the test, most illegal charters are conducted without a licensed captain at the helm so your point is irrelevant. Those that have passed the test and spend the money on the license, test, medical etc usually don’t want to risk their license.

    Pretty safe to assume that if this had been a charter the USCG would be all over it.
  10. olderboater, Oct 16, 2020
    #30
    olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2013
    Messages:
    7,130
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    Yes, everyone can get off the fueling tangent. I would never have 21 on that size boat, but the boat may have had no intention of leaving the dock. Still there was inadequate room to quickly escape. I've always been of the opinion you should never have more people aboard than you have seats on the boat and it had about 13. 13 instead of 21 would have likely saved some.

    Now, what are the next most likely causes? First, is electrical. Second is galley. Now neither of those has an explosion. Most frequent explosion would then be propane tanks.
  11. Pascal, Oct 16, 2020
    #31
    Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2008
    Messages:
    8,541
    Location:
    Miami, FL
    I will Never had propane on the boat. Never. Yes just like gas inboards it can be safe but it s not worth it. For grilling I either use and electrical grill or charcoal. I just don’t like propane.

    i will always remember years ago In st Barth’s seeing the aftermath of a 50ish sailboat ripped open like a can opener had been used following a propane explosion which killed 4 on board.
  12. NYCAP123, Oct 16, 2020
    #32
    NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,208
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    The only propane that boat would carry, if any, would be a small bottle for the stove. However I believe the stove on that boat is electric. Judging from the burn pattern I'd guess an engine room fire and with that most likely a gasoline leak. If that boat is as old as I suspect most of the fuel system (hoses, tanks, carbs) was due for replacement a long time ago. There was a thread a few weeks back about what to do with leaking tanks on an old Mainship, and I think the consensus was the boat wasn't worth the expense of fixing.
  13. NYCAP123, Oct 16, 2020
    #33
    NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,208
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Now charcoal on a boat would scare the hell out of me. It takes forever to cool. Even after dousing with water the embers have been known to reignite.
    It's funny hearing these fears of gasoline and propane. Our cars, bikes, lawn equipment, etc. all run on gasoline. The BBQs on our decks are propane and many of us have natural gas pumped into our homes. When these fuels explode it's devastating, but it happens so rarely we continue to use them. As for electric that's no safer. How many house, car and boat fires are caused by shorts or overloaded circuits. How many people get electrocuted every year. Danger is all around us every day. It's our job to mitigate it by maintaining our homes, vehicles and vessels. When we don't we often learn the hard way.
  14. Capt J, Oct 16, 2020
    #34
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2005
    Messages:
    14,524
    Location:
    Fort Lauderdale
    I have no fear of propane provided it's for a grill and tank and plumbing outside. NEVER would I ever light a charcoal grill on a boat.......flying ashes......coals that stay hot for a very long time, delayed control over the heat of it.....
  15. Norseman, Oct 16, 2020
    #35
    Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,100
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale
    Now we are talking cooking fuels instead of propulsion fuels:
    I had alcohol stoves, kerosene stoves, propane stoves and now butane burners
    on my boats, never felt unsafe after living aboard for years here and there.
    Never owned a boat with inboard gasoline engines however, and never will.
    (Yes, if maintained good, etc, they may be safe, if this, if that)

    I am with Pascal on this: Not sure I would be safe, or feel safe on one of those.
    (Inboard Gasoline..., not)
  16. Oscarvan, Oct 16, 2020
    #36
    Oscarvan

    Oscarvan Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2015
    Messages:
    969
    Location:
    Chesapeake Bay
    Cars, bikes, lawn equipment, BBQ's and I will add RV's don't have bilges.
  17. Norseman, Oct 16, 2020
    #37
    Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,100
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale
  18. NYCAP123, Oct 16, 2020
    #38
    NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,208
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Guess you must drive a Prius.:rolleyes: Guess you guys would or never have owned a small boat. Under 38' most are gas. That's a lot of boats. Don't hear of many exploding or burning either. In fact if you look back on the boats reported here burned this summer every other one of them has been a diesel boats.
  19. NYCAP123, Oct 16, 2020
    #39
    NYCAP123

    NYCAP123 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2008
    Messages:
    11,208
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    That makes it a charter. Next question crewed or bareboat.
  20. Norseman, Oct 16, 2020
    #40
    Norseman

    Norseman Senior Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,100
    Location:
    Ft. Lauderdale
    Been driving a Chevy Volt for years, not a Prius. :oops:
    Sorry Ed, inboard Gas is not my cup of tea.
    There are a few around here but I stay away from them, and tell my buddies not to buy one, if they ask me.
    (Horrible power plants on boats in my humble opinion)

    Perhaps with the short seasons up North, and the cooler temperatures, inboard gas is more acceptable..?
Page 2 of 7