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What are we getting for our money?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by maldwin, Oct 11, 2020.

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  1. maldwin

    maldwin Senior Member

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    Dark Harbor Me/ Hobe Sound Fl
    In the TMI thread there was some interesting discussion about the cost of new engines, and what may be driving those increases. Is it regulatory pressure? Improvements? Unnecessary gizmos?
    As a mechanical idiot, the principal benefits I see from newer engines are less noise and vibration, along with more room in the engine room. I can’t really say I have had less trouble with newer engines than with the 671s and 871s I have had. I also don’t know what the price difference in constant dollars is between the newer engines and the old ones, so don’t know if I am getting value for money.
    Best,
    Maldwin
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Basically as far as engines go, the EPA is driving the manufacturers to increase technology which costs a lot of money and that's increasing the engine prices greatly. It's not all engine prices, but boat prices also have increased significantly. Electronics as well.
  3. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    The price of everything increases for so many varied reasons and boats and equipment are just part of it. Sometimes it's hard to know exactly the cost and benefit as things evolve. For instance, automobiles today are much safer, more fuel efficient, and pollute less than they did years ago. However, that's the result of hundreds of changes, many dictated by government requirements. Most of them immediately cost more than the public would have paid voluntarily. Since though that cost has decreased and the public would never give the benefit up.

    We talk about electronics on boats and I'd never give any of it up but when first introduced it all is difficult to justify. I think of cell phones, which we all carry, and the first ones were too bulky, too expensive and we didn't see the real need. Or microwaves which were outrageously expensive and now cost so little. Look at something as simple as GPS and we all have it now on our phones and use it to navigate on land as well as water and pay very little for it.

    I never used the older engines, but I know newer engines are more efficient, quieter, provide more performance, and more dependable. I know some would argue some parts of that. However, they're thinking of the cost of older engines decades ago, not what they would cost today. With prices of materials, the engines from 40 years ago would cost more today than the engines in use today.

    Yes, EPA and world environmental organizations do dictate some things, but I don't think you can consider one item, like boat engines, alone, and I don't think you can evaluate at the time of implementation or change. You simply know that if we hadn't made the changes of the last 50 years, we'd be in dire straits on air quality. I think we also know that some of the changes won't provide the benefits anticipated and in the future may be cast away or modified. What we do know is that no environmental improvements have come voluntarily.

    I save tremendous money by using LED bulbs everywhere. Yet, when they were introduced I didn't change and couldn't have saved money. By forcing them on us they were improved and costs then dropped to where the economics now make sense, but without regulatory change we'd all still be using old incandescent.

    The automobile engines of today require far less maintenance in their lifetime than those decades ago. Yes, you can point to high mileage engines of all generations but on the average the cost in same year dollars is down. You talk about electronics on them and the old engines required sometimes hours of work to just figure out the problem, when with today's diagnostic equipment, they'll tell you what is wrong.

    I think of automobile tires and how safe they are and how long they last today. It was only a couple of generations ago that blowouts at speed were dangerous and lives lost and that rarely is an issue today.

    We evolve and technology leads us. Doesn't all work out well, but then we correct. On the whole though, I think the improvements are worth it and I'm happy to have them. I know we can cross oceans without equipment as today is now Columbus Day and he did it. Of course he didn't know where he was. I prefer to use GPS and Charts and Radar and AIS and everything else available today.
  4. maldwin

    maldwin Senior Member

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    Location:
    Dark Harbor Me/ Hobe Sound Fl


    That is a very complete and thoughtful answer. I am still not convinced that a 671 would be more expensive today in inflation adjusted dollars than a modern engine. I also doubt that as many of the modern engines will be in service 50 or 60 years from now as DDs are.
    I do think electronics have gotten much better over time, and may have even gotten cheaper in constant dollars.
    Stabilization may be the greatest worthwhile improvement for many boaters.
    Small custom boats have become much more expensive over time, and are almost non existent today. Someone who wants to restore a 35/60 foot boat 50 years from now will be looking at production boats.
    I agree that cars have gotten much better, with the exception of the very high end interiors which can’t compete with coachbuilt examples.
    Best,
    Maldwin