Arneson Surface Drives

Ummmmm ... wut? I have to agree with Capt J, it would have to be a spectacular sea in order to do so with arnesons.

I am just curious here, have you ever driven a vessel with Arneson Drive yourself personally? Much less in conditions like you describe?

When you look at the manufacturers of these boats, they tend to favor arneson under 90’ and jets over. I have not run either in the over size range. Shafts are better than both jets and arnesons go as far as everyday use and ease, but as you’ve said, you’re not going to get the same speed out of them. Going fast takes some compromises. Quite honestly I run a 62’ predator a lot, it cruises at 28 knots with shafts and no compromises and I like that situation, 35 knots like OB,s Riva with shafts would be plenty for me

Thanks for pointing out that surface drive experiences are not all the same nor are jet experiences. Your take the helm of an AB 116 and all the things you've heard or experienced in other jets are out the window. This is a jet boat designed and refined by the most experienced and expert jet builder. The handling and performance are great. Same thing on surface drives as you can't compare an 80' Pershing to a 50' one off.

Similarly, the owner or operator's experience becomes very important. We purchased our Riva's in 2012 when we had just moved to the coast and not yet even licensed. We did go on a trial in a comparably sized Pershing to our 63' Riva at the time. We were not as comfortable handling it at that time. Our captains who we had just hired had no experience with surface drives. 8 years later if we were making the same comparison and faced the same decision, we might well go the other way with the Pershing for the extra speed. We have well over 100,000 nm intervening and licenses and many upgrades and experience in all types of situations. We're better equipped to adjust. Still for the quick run we're on right now to Miami and beyond and then back home we're quite happy in the choppy seas with the tracking and comfort of the Riva with it's traditional drives and we're accompanied on our afternoon play time by two 52' Rivas.

Avoid 63 Azzurra with 1100hp Man and Flash 48 with Cats 3208 435hp or 3116 660hp. Azzurra runs good with 1200 and 1300hp, and I know a couple of captains which told me it give a run for the money even to a Magnum with the 1300.
Flash is okay/good Volvo 480hp very good Volvo D9 575 or Cats C9 550hp, possibly one of the best boats in size and weight. 44 knots speed and if they have latest gen SD they also plane at 13/15 knots.
Some early Flash had average build quality but some of the boats I have seen I have to disagree.
The problem with Baia was around mid to end 90s where they went from a more cottage style build to order system to a more production style approach.

Baia under diameters their props, or it’s a hull design issue. But even the 63’ with 1300 takes a hope and a dream and a mile to get on plane, as does their entire lineup. A friend of mine even ran an 80 same issue........ I ran a 59’ and it was horrible too.

12 litre versus 9 liter. To much weight at the back I would think. Yes I mean 3196 a typo.
I think they made only two with that engine package.
48 Flash with Volvo D9 is near perfection and at 28 knots cruise drinks just about 4 litre per nm. In following sea she is near unbeatable, in head sea with a long oceanic style wave also. With short steep wave due to a not very sharp entry forward not the best boat to have.

You are comparing apples to oranges. Up until 2002/4 all Arnesons had a bit a problem and needed 20 plus knots to plane. Then they added there trim angle (thanks to competition from Italian surface drive maker Top System) and thinks started to change. I think but I am off my mind (I might be wrong) the new versions have an L added to them which allow them to have a lower trim angle from 5 to about 8/10 degrees. Hence why modern surface drive boats plane at about 15 knots.
To be fair and showing that may be here the experience of Surface drives is very limited, Baia actually due to them being on the lighter side of things (compared to a Magnum but also a Pershing which has more creature comforts) to a Baia used to have the lowest planning speed of all boats.
A Baia 48 Flash with 3208 435hp from 99 keeps plane at 18/20 knots, and that is not the best engine package. Same boat with Volvo's Tamd 75 480hp which is a lighter more powerful engine keeps plane at 16 knots.

Be sure that you had clean propellers on these boats, you stop a week with any SD boat and you cry. I know people who are in love with the system and because of propeller cleaning they give up, as the maintenance is not that much more from a shaft boat. A 63 Azzurra 1300hp and clean props is near to perfection, if it is not so is because it is wrong propped, even if you have old type Arnie's which by the way you can modify to the new system.
Last week I was speaking to hull #1 captain of the 63 Azzzurra in Sicily which I meet in its maiden cruise in Malta and in Genova boat show 1999, powered by MTU 1150hp, and he said how happy they have been with the boat in 21 plus years and two engine rebuilds. This boat did 400 hours after delivery in late June of that year, Naples to Amalfi coast and Pontine islands, round trip of Sardinia, and then Malta and back.

Not entirely correct since the 48 Flash was a boat which lasted from 99 and is still in production and if I remember well over 100 have been made so far.
Baia 48 Flash was launched in 1999 based on the platform of the B43 (launced in 90), and 46 Bimini. The last two are the same boat with exception that the last had an aft looking radar arch (prod 96 to 98) and a bit different interior and exterior layout.
48 Flash extended the hull by a couple feet and had a sloop stern and the line was also lowered at the back, new interior layout and new cockpit layout.
When introduced the boat came out with 3208 and 3196. The first was an engine always available on the B43 which apart that engine had a Seateak 610hp option.
Volvo introduced the Tamd74 in 98/99 and Baia looked at this engine, which was the best engine for the model before the CR introduction of the D9 and C9 was the best engine for the Flash.
The D9 introduced in 2005 ended up being the best engine and package for the boat just because of its weight just a bit more to a Tamd74/75 480hp and nearly 100 ponnies more.
Model had a redesigned hard-top in 2004 which became fixed, as the 99 to 2004 model had a removable variant, which you could remove all.

They do exist with the boat yard currently more doing refits. The moulds are still at the yard, with the management currently renting it out from the Tribunal I was told.

Although as far as I was told they have not build anything since quite some time. But many where re-opening before Covid.

https://www.cantieridibaia.it/

This thread is about two years old, but somehow I missed it and I believe I can add some contribution around the topic if still of interest.

1st, to answer the OP’s initial questions, my 2003 Mangusta 80 has Arneson 15s and after 5 years of ownership and about 250 hours (mostly short sectors), they required a steering ram service, both boots replacement, collars, some O rings, packings, shims (tightening), the odd minor part and that was it, costing approx 12 to 14k (labor and parts if you factor in a small contribution to the haulage and dry dock). Every two years I have replaced the external hydraulic lines (about 1k plus labor) and every year we put in new anodes. I also replaced the entire sets of internal hydraulic hoses connecting the trim actuators and the hydraulic control box because the terminals were showing signs of corrosion (it is not exactly a recent boat). That was about 2k. Other than that, they have been operating fine.


2nd, and with regards to manoeuvring in marinas, it has been very manoeuvrable in terms of steering it, and getting it to move as you wish (it has bow and stern thrusters). I have been able to put it wherever I have had to (including Bastia old port next to the customs boat, Porto Cervo Banchina Principale in the far end). The only major concern, but with practice it becomes manageable, is the closeness of the props to other boats’ underwater tie-downs. Even though the overall visibility from the “RHD” helm is pretty good, you can’t see your props and they are the furthermost underwater point attached to your stern. Cameras are of great help, crews as well, but I ended up getting used to doing it on my own. Basically, like in your car, you have to be able to gauge the corners and their distance to whatever obstacles. And it’s always a challenge.


3rd, It seems the whole thread was finally oriented to seakeeping. The boat is has a fairly flat bottom in the back, and naturally is not comparable to a Magnum. But I was only recently confronted with nasty (to me) head seas (about 1.5 meters with fast intervals), between Corsica and Sardinia, and then about 1 meter from North Corsica to mainland Italy. Well, it’s a “pain in the major”, but Arnesons down, speed down to whatever does not make it slam, and she kept the course straight. Always. I don’t know about other ASD boats, but this is how this one behaves.

Other than that, it always comes up on plane at around 17 to 18 kts even with a full fuel load.


So, it may not be the top of the world, but it’s not as bad as it appears to be from other posts.