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Simrad AP 26 autopilot interfaced with new Garmin GPS

Discussion in 'Electronics' started by tjdill47, Jun 11, 2020.

  1. tjdill47

    tjdill47 New Member

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    I just replaced my Raymarine GPS (E120 Classic), Sonar and Radar with new Garmin GPSMAP 1242 XSV plus and GMR Fantom 24 radar. I kept the Simrad AP 26 Autopilot. Had everything professionally installed and integrated. First time out when we used the autopilot, we ended up way off course. On another attempt the autopilot seemed to turn away from the waypoint we were going to. I noticed that the heading on the GPS (146 degrees) my compass (150 degrees) and the AP26 (105 degrees) were all different.

    Would the GPS and AP26 need to be re calibrated after changing the GPS? I have a call into my installer, but if this is something I can do on my own, I would like to get it fixed sooner as the installer is running about a week to get back to me on issues.

    Thanks,

    Terry
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Take the boat out and put the autopilot in setup mode, swing/calibrate the compass on the autopilot, then do the seatrial for the autopilot. See if that helps.
  3. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Where are the compasses installed. Anything new around the AP26 compass?

    Swing the compass as Skippy J above recommends after you make sure nothing (lost screw driver, other tool, new Garmin compass, new wires) is around the AP26 compass.
  4. tjdill47

    tjdill47 New Member

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    Thanks Capt. J, I will try that next time out.
  5. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Sort of reads like a battle between the fluxgate of the pilot and the GPS. Would assume here that the Garmin is using the GPS for heading information and that isn't in harmony with the data coming from the pilot compass. You could perhaps point the Garmin to use the pilot fluxgate compass as its heading source and see if that corrects the issue. Or, as stated, recalibrate the pilot from scratch and get the systems all in harmony.
  6. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Just remembered something, Did you by chance ad a N2K wind device?
  7. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    In auto mode, the AP26 uses the Simrad autopilot compass for heading and that is it. Should not be getting any heading information from the Garmin for steering the boat.
  8. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    The AP26 RobNet uses the Simrad RC36 rate compass.
    The AP16, 25, 26 & 27 were the first to offer SimNet and N2K I/O while still using the RobNet base systems. Sadly, the N2K group prioritys were not set up very well at the beginning of N2K and even worse for the SimNet/crossover. The AC10,20&40 box may see the N2K compass signal as the preferred signal but not at the proper comms rate.
    If the newer Garmin compass or weather vane compass is tied to the N2K back bone, the AC box will drive itself crazy figuring out what compass to talk to.
    Not a problem on the Ray E120 sense the SeaTalk 2, N2k and old SimNet were of the old stuff and not using the higher anarchy of the latest N2k.

    When in doubt, after swinging the compass and problems persist, disconnect the AP from the N2K back bone and try the pilot in auto mode.

    Here is where old preparatory N2K and later standards clash (CRASH) together. The selling shop should of known this of the N2K old/new buss. You probably will respond that you have a Garmin compass and maybe a weather head. The Garmin compass is needed to overlap radar on the charts. Sometimes the weather head compass will work here also.
    The fast fix, Go back to NMEA 183 from the Garmin to the AP box both ways and remove the AP from the SimNet/N2k back bone. Or turn off your new money compass options from your wind vane or Garmin compass.

    Or, The new Garmin smart pilot is pretty cool. If you enjoy throwing money at somebody, this would be the ultimate. Touch the steering wheel and the pilot turns it self off and your driving in a panic scenario..

    Check out the prices of used AP25-26 equipment on e-bay may help.
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2020
  9. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Once you fix your problem(s), kick the ass hole who talked you into the Garmin equipment.
  10. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Never stated that the AP is using the Garmin compass. Said that the AP and Garmin are using different compass sources, and that those two sources are not calibrated. Thought I was clear. Meant to be clear...

    Had a mess of an issue with my AP, MFD, and Radar all misaligned. Thank you, Highseas. AP wanted to go 300 degrees, Waypoint was due north, and radar overplayed land on top of my position. Boat Icon was going sideways everywhere. Once all were dialed back in, and I told the MFD to use the AP fluxgate as its heading source, no more issues.
  11. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Have you tried using the AP with the Garmin shutdown? Even at the dock, check if the AP heading goes back to normal with Garmin off
  12. Prospective

    Prospective Senior Member

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    This sounds like a calibration problem as Capt J. already pointed out. Go thru the sea trial set up again then see what happens. I am baffled by the talk of a "Garmin Compass". The plotter has no compass. It will read COG (course over ground) based on the boats movement thru the water as determined by the GPS. This will often vary slightly from "heading" which is magnetic and will come from the AP if the AP and Plotter are integrated. If the "heading" and "COG" vary by a large margin then their is a calibration problem or magnetic interference with the AP compass. Once the sea trial set-up is redone I would just put the AP in heading hold and see if it can drive a straight course. It should be able to do that totally independently of the plotter. If it can do that, then you can monkey with asking it to drive to a point or follow a route which depend on the AP and plotter exchanging data via N2K.
  13. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    What your simple scenario does not register, near three different generations of serial network coms. The Garmin with the new and most complete and open N2k talking to a very old and incomplete SimNet just barely N2K comparable AND RobNet, Simrads own option network. Group priorities, option IDs and standardized option timing was not complete in the old days (10 to 15 years ago). The AP25 family of products is 15+ years old.
    A modern Garmin option is a compass that allows radar overlay over charts that can not be completed with GPD direction. Also, Airmar offers a N2K weather head that is very common with new equipment with a mini compass to detect wind direction. Some sounders need a compass for recording Bathy data.

    So, Until we really get a complete inventory list from the O P and after he completes some compass calibrations, Were just guessing.

    I have been here and just went thru it again, My old AP25 (same as the O P) just was not talking well with all my other stuff.
    It took a while to get my New Simrad AP, Simrad AIS 400, Simrad RS35 radio, Simrad IS20 displays, Simrad WR-WB20, old Raymarine E120 plotters with Ray DSM, RNS & Ray compass talking to my large screen PC. Interconnects using SeaTalk, SeaTalk2 (old N2K) Ray H-S(eithernet), USB, N2K, SimNet and N183/RS232.

    Been here, done this, consumed mass quantities..
  14. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Don't be baffled by the talk of "Garmin Compass". The reference is very simple. Every MFD uses some source of data for heading. So does the auto pilot. Making those one in the same simplifies the task of calibration, if it is possible to do so.
  15. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    That is what I have been trying to say. 15+ years age between the new Garmin and the old Simrad AP. May not be possible to do. So then, you need another compass.
    I had the same AP. I needed a Ray Compass for my MFD to get my charts & radar to overlay.
    The Simrad RC36 compass is on RobNet and does not do well on SimNet nor with its 15 year old technology talk well with todays N2k.

    There are so many possibilitys of errors when putting old and new stuff together. I've just explained what troubles I have had and observed on other installations.
  16. Prospective

    Prospective Senior Member

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    I don't see any reference to something the OP has that could be considered a "Garmin Compass". I consider a compass to be a magnetic or gyroscopic device that determines heading. He makes no mention of having anything that would be a "Garmin Compass". My interpretation of his set up is Garmin Plotter, traditional analog Helm Compass (like all boats), and Simrad AP (also with compass). So i'm not clear on what the "Garmin Compass" would be. The only thing OP seems to have that's Garmin is a plotter. The plotter it's self has no ability to determine "heading" on its own because it has NO compass. If you do not have an external heading sensor connected (ie AP compass, Garmin Steadycast or other external magnetic or gyro compass), the plotter will display NO heading data. What it will display is course over ground COG based on the boats movement thru the water. Boat stops moving and COG becomes meaningless.

    OP stated "I noticed that the heading on the GPS (146 degrees) my compass (150 degrees) and the AP26 (105 degrees) " His GPS is displaying COG, which matches pretty close to his compass heading which I presume is a helm mounted magnetic compass. This makes sense. One of his problems appears to be his AP is displaying a heading that is WAY off from the Garmin COG and the helm compass. This is likely either a calibration problem of the AP or there is magnetic interference with the AP compass. Easiest thing to try first is simply recalibrate the AP via the sea trial set up.

    My point for OP is simply confirm that the AP can steer a straight course and displays a heading that matches relatively closely with COG and helm compass. This can be done with zero interface between the AP and plotter. If all that works then he can get bogged down in if the AP and plotter can talk to each other.
  17. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    The O P stated he has a new plotter and radar mfd.
    If he has spent these big bux, I assume he would want radar over laid on his charts.
    Here you usually need a compass for the mfd.
    The O P has yet to confirm his whole package.

    Further, There is technical issues with the older RobNet AP compass and the new N2K I/O between the AP and new Garmin equipment that may not allow the AP compass to be used in the Garmin.

    The OP stated he had an E120 MFD. I had the same package on my boat (AP25 & E120) and I needed then a second compass for my E120s radar / chart overlay. I am guessing he had and kept this second compass or installed a new Garmin compass for his new mfd.

    Usually, when people spend the bux on equipment like this, the little extras are just pennies extra like an Airmar weather station, that includes it's own compass and I have witnessed these compasses indues errors on mfds.
    Again, without further notes from the OP, I'm just expanding on what I'm guessing at.

    Swinging all of his equipment needs to be done first we all agree. Disconnect or unplug the AP from all other equipment would be next in line for trouble shooting.
  18. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    Every MFD requires access to some device that provides it with electronic heading information. Most basic systems will get that data from a GPS. More elaborate will get the data from the AP or some other additional fluxgate-type appendage. Same MFD. Different setups. The OP didn't mention every feature incorporated in the system installation. So much of the banter here is speculation.

    When a modification is made to a system installation, variables for potential conflict are introduced. Here the owner has added a new MFD to pair with an old AP. The headings are conflicting along with various other conflicts. That isn't the fault of the new MFD or the AP. It's an installation, setup, calibration issue. If the MFD is looking at your watch for time of day, and the AP is looking at mine for the same, and out watches are set to different time zones, well, they aren't going to collaborate very well...
  19. rtrafford

    rtrafford Senior Member

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    In my Ray MFD settings (using LH3) I can go right to a setting from which I can choose amongst the available sources of heading for the MFD to rely upon. When I switched from the same Simrad AP to the new Ray AP, I had similar conflicts appear. Going into this setting component I was able to point the devices to rely upon the AP compass that had been added with that installation, and then everything lined up. During the AP calibration, everything dialed in as would be hoped.
  20. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    The LightHouse stuff is of a newer generation of equipment. N2K grouping has come a long way in 15 years.
    More flexible and smarter set up options also.