Buyers Trapped in Feud with Sunseeker...

I know a lot of the builders in Taiwan are going to a more Euro styling and trying to get into that market. I believe OA was interviewed about doing just this and Horizon is going that way primarily with the FD series. Most of the builders you mention predominately serve the 75’+ market. We don’t really have any US builders serving under that (other than a rather old styling of the Hatteras 60). We make good sport fishes but, then again, we essentially are the entire market (North America at least).

When I was the Broker of Record for Heart Marine, a major Symbol dealer at the time, at the Quay in Ft. Lauderdale, I had concerns over the owner applying appropriate payments to the clients' particular hull. I advised the company owner that if I didn't see clear accounting, I would have to report my concerns to DBPR. Owner said to go ahead. I called DBPR and they said I had to write a report with complete details which I did including the fact that the owner blocked my access to the escrow account. DBPR did nothing while I watched the situation worsen. I called my clients who had written new build contracts with me and I told them I thought their payments were going to the builds in queue ahead. One client got his boat delivered, one client dropped communication with me, and one client argued to get his money back which he did at a loss. I walked away from 3 commissions and then I started my own company. After I left Heart Marine, there were many lawsuits, the owner left town, and..drumroll: he's a broker with a very larger brokerage company with a license in another state.

Judy
:-(

Princess North America and the Viking service center do offer top notch warranty repair on princesses. They repair things no questions asked and get working on the issues very quickly, if you’re in the south Florida area. Outside of that area, I don’t know.

Years back when the DBPR was the DPR, they would revoke your state license when a complaint was filed, investigated, and found valid. The vocation/business license system means nothing without being policed.

For all practical purposes, it's a worldwide unregulated industry. The only regulation is the integrity and financial strength of those you're dealing with. Even the court systems are ill equipped to protect your interests.

And for those preaching US builders, might I remind them of Trinity, of Northern, of Christensen, and others.

Of course being an American boat builder does not guarantee all is well, but easier to deal with if the s... hits the fan such as this thread. The herd has been thinned since the luxury tax and last economic melt down. You are good with statistic's and probably know how many US builders closed their doors over the years, many for sure.

It's easier? Tell me of anyone who recovered money from the builders I mentioned or the others who shut down? Quite a few had boats that they'd made substantial progress payments on locked up in yards or buildings and had to fight for them and then get them completed elsewhere.

We mentioned Hatteras and Viking, but Hatteras sells through dealers and Viking does so outside the country. I've never seen the nature of the contracts they use, but I'm sure some of those dealers I'd not trust the same as I would Hatteras or Viking.

There have certainly been people dealing with dealerships on smaller boats who had issues. Many have put their old boats on dealers lots on consignment but not been paid when they sold. Others have bought boats but never received legal titles to them.

One issue is the abuse of bankruptcy laws. There are famous people in this country who built their wealth off of repeated bankruptcies, never paying the full costs. It's too easy to shut down and reopen the same business in the same location but rid oneself of all debts. Our DA's are very hesitant to make fraud charges as they're so difficult to prove. Bankruptcy was created to protect those who had exceptionally bad luck of one type or another or incurred a major issue in their lives and it does that well. It wasn't created as a tool for business persons to take profits but then pass losses on to those they owed money.

We talk about damage to reputations. Yet all the parties involved in this fiasco are still conducting business as normal. Other builders are dealing with the dealer and other dealers are dealing with the builder involved.

The only real losers at this point are the buyers. I ask this question rhetoically, so not seeking answers, but would you order a boat from Obey or buy a Sunseeker today? I don't mind the two of them fighting but at some point they should have decided to dispute each other but to figure out how to do so without hurting customers. Instead, they used the customers as their weapons and held the customers responsible for their financial conflict. It's sadly ironic that the only people totally innocent in all this are the ones hurt most.

Thank you Judy. Doing what you described takes more guts and pride than many can muster. May you be blessed with the best listings and clients.

Heck no, I would not buy a boat from Obey or a Sunseeker because of the putting their customer in the middle of their dispute, buyer should get his boat and they can fight it out in court. Hope others do the same, they deserve it. Yes, both are still doing business and the buyers has paid a lot and no boat. If the Florida DBPR was doing their job they would be investigating and revoke his broker license. Also, the assorted yacht broker associations Obey is a member of should be looking into this matter. Nothing new here, there are a lot of crooked business owners that swindle their customers and continue doing business as usual. As far as the contacts they use, never seen one but I bet it is doozy. Would be interesting to see one.

This is why there is a television show called American Greed. Darn shame.

WELL, here's the problem. Sunseeker never got paid for the boats in question, or never paid fully. SO, really Obey is the bad guy as far as taking the customers money and then not paying the manufacturer...…………..

I know some manufacturers where the buyer pays the manufacturer and the dealer gets their cut from the manufacturer etc.

So where is the boat now ? It's over six months older now, in climate controlled storage or bobbing around in the sun and salt ?

I don't think FL Boat Broker assns have an issue. You can sell new builds and not be a broker.
If I could find another fool to by a new boat from me, Just takes a call & deposit to get an order number.
I'm sorry, this thread has been going on a while and I finally have to chime in.
To many fools out there who want to spend money. Call up some friend of a friend, cousin to another friend (ex-used car sales person) who want to buy a fancy boat. Did the buyers ever go to the factory? Talk to the factory during their supposed build? Orders and trim options confirmed. Haven't read any of this.

Anybody out there want to just hand over big bux to a stranger and trust his contract, word of (bla) and his hand shake and not any CYA?

I don't feel sorry for the loosers at all. S F Bs..

Obey was Sunseekers largest dealer in the U.S. and for well over a decade. Most all of the new yachts have to be ordered as there are so many options and colors inside and out. Given how large his business was and how many yachts he was selling, it gave no reason to not trust him. Think about it, 6 different owners are stuck when the music stopped playing...…..he did a lot of volume. Look at the guy who embezzled millions from Denison, they were large enough that, that didn't effect their customers, but another large brokerage house and one employee had the keys to the kingdom.

I know everyone here hates MarineMax but they are one of the few dealers out there that have some skin in the game being a publicly traded company that also has to have adequate internal controls to prevent and detect fraud so situations like this can not occur. They might be horrible at warranty claims but seems harder for them to steal your money and have a base to go after.

That is true, but they would've gone under in the financial meltdown 10 years ago if Brunswick didn't step in and loan them a boat load of cash.

Thanks, gr8trn - that was a beautiful note!

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/busine...0200220-2wjd5i3yfvhn7ccswkytaxdh6q-story.html

A federal judge ordered it returned to the possession of Sunseeker.

"Turner says he was caught in a sort of financial musical chairs that Obey and Sunseeker had been playing for years."

And this could be where Sunseeker is going to have trouble. If it can be shown that Sunseeker operated their business with Obey in a manner that was inconsistent with their contract that could make it difficult for Sunseeker to rely on the contract for it's defense.

Question, Can all the money be put into an escrow account till the boat is built and signed over to the new owner so no one is out the money, if the boat is never finished the money goes back to buyer? I've not built a new boat yet, just purchased new from dealers inventory which is not how big boats are sold now.