I'm under contract to buy a 2011 Azimut 58...

Just look at what it costs to maintain MTU 183 series engines......A small fortune.

WHAT? After all the time we have invested in this matter? Wow, that hurts. OK, what's next? Ah..... Yes.... MTU's Capt J is on the ball here. No parts for that puppy at Pep Boys.....

What does that mean that seller is down a lot below the list price? Are you saying seller started out asking way too much? I ask because all the prices have been determined by the seller.

And, why the fixation on Azimut?

I'd really suggest you find a good buyer's broker and start working with them and through them. You need someone to help guide you through the process. You've jumped from a 2011 58' to a 2005 64'. All I can imagine is that they're both Azimut's and in the same price range.

They run good/smooth/quiet at cruise. This is about where it ends for them. Stinky/smelly with visible grey smoke at hull speeds generally (not that pre-common rail mans were any better in this department). If you blow a belt (always change all belts at the same time) the engine grenades at about the same time the alarm sounds. Also the belt adjuster has a rod that goes through the expansion tank, they love to freeze up and are about $5k to fix when they do, just so you can adjust the belts. Electronics are expensive. Parts are uber expensive......a raw water pump is around $6500 last time I checked, $4k for a rebuilt one. Injectors and injector pump should be done every 1000 hours. If you think MAN's are costly to maintain, you better have be sitting down when you see bills on these puppies.

Do yourself a favor and look at American brands, Sunseeker, even Princess...…...And, honestly if you think doing day charters, you are going to make what you quoted, guess again. The only way you can do day charters successfully in the first place, is with a full time Captain and stew/chef/mate, can't book a charter that you don't have crew for, so you're talking $125k a year, then the huge wear and tear, the boat gets completely trashed in a year or two, and the increased maintenance costs......

Don't you still get the difference, after all the explanations I gave about it? Seriously?!?

Regardless, frankly my impression is that it's often about prejudices, rather than boats.
In fact, one thing is being opinionated (an attitude which I disagree that experience can justify, anyhow), and another is being knowledgeable.
Show me where I defined a boat - any boat - "problem child", "highest quality in the world", or anything else along these lines, if you can.
These are claims that don't belong to a professional, and which I'd expect to hear from a salesman at a boat show, to either dismiss a competitor or praise his own stuff.
The same kind of person that I wouldn't be surprised if he were unable to answer a question as basic as how many watertight compartments his boat has, after having claimed that it's the best in the world. Or if he stated that maneuvering winches are useless on a 90 footer because US Captains are good at maneuvering, without even considering that they could be essential also in emergencies that have nothing to see with docking.

No worries, anyway.
Separating the wheat from the chaff is not that difficult, for anyone used to internet forums.
And I'm only here because, now and then, there is indeed some wheat worth reading.
The rest is just noise - a bit annoying to be honest, but tolerable.

You'd better imagine something else, because they are not.
If I should name two radically different companies among the hundreds (literally, I kid you not) that ever built pleasure boats in Italy, Azimut and Aicon would be two of the most appropriate names for such example.
There isn't any logical reason why whoever published that ad entitled it "Azimut Aicon", aside from thinking that it could work as a clickbait.

I'll refrain from commenting further on Aicon boats, of which I've inspected half a dozen, because I have a funny feeling that someone who have never seen one in flesh could pretend to know better.

My comment wasn't addressed to you. I was asking the OP why those two boats. You cannot answer his reasoning on his behalf. Are you just here to insult everyone you can? I don't know that the OP knows the difference or if the title attracted him or was part of his search criteria. I still ask him, not you, why the two boats he's selected out of all the boats in the world. Different sizes and ages.

And, for the record, I've never been on or to my knowledge seen a 2005 64' Aicon.

I just felt if I could understand the OP's reasoning better, I might be of more help to him.

If you felt insulted, I apologize.
I can assure you it wasn't my intention, but I appreciate that my comment - possibly also because written right after the previous one - wasn't exactly diplomatic.
On the other hand, you did say they are both Azimut, so I think it wasn't too silly from my part to assume that you weren't aware of the fact that they aren't.
Whether also the OP fell in that trap and how much his interest could have been affected by that, obviously is something I don't have a clue about.

PS: the last paragraph of my post which you quoted wasn't addressed to yourself anyway, just in case you might wonder.

You are on..

Interesting thread though, subscribed.

BOY, You just like to argue. And, you like to change what someone said, into something totally different to make your argument.

I never said, maneuvering winches are useless, I simply said here in the United States we rarely use them. I've run one of those 90' many times, that you are speaking of, in and out of slips and places most Captains could never dream of putting it in. It's main slip for a long time was a stern in, fixed dock with 1' on the beam to spare and 10' on the bow to swing the entire boat 90 degrees into the slip. Between the bow/stern thrusters and joystick, you'd have to be REALLY bad to need to use stern winches on it. The ONLY time I find stern winches useful in this region, is if a squal pops up and you need to temporarily take in some slack in stern lines, which really shouldn't have been there in the first place. That being said, if you happen to have $13 million to buy that boat you're speaking of (which I doubt), click the option sheet and pay for the stern winches.

I've also managed and maintained and Captained long term around 8 different Azimuts over the years. I've run many many more of them short term (daily/weekly/delivering them). I even managed 2 that were the same size/model/year and 2 hull numbers apart and the electrical was run totally different in both boats, totally different electrical small parts, and the joinery was installed totally different. One of them they put the joinery over the ceiling panels, so the removable ceiling panels to access things in the ceiling, could not be removed......yeah...….when I was talking to someone really high up with Azimut at the time, they enlightened me that there are 7 different marine electrician companies that each do a different boat and they all come out different and all the factory cared about was this switch turned on those lights and the equipment worked. Another owner of a large Azimut dealer told me the same thing, if they have an issue of something not working (electrically) they don't even bother diagnosing it anymore, they just run new wires from point to point.

A friend of mine does deliveries on a bunch of newish Azimuts and he says nothing has changed. Ceiling panels fall down, stuff breaks on the interior, engineering issues, everything inside creaks, rattles, or groans and nothing has changed with them. But, they're flashy and they sell a lot of boats.....

The Italian boat building model is the entire problem. Most of the Italian builders sub-contract the electrical, joinery work and plumbing to different companies and the model does not work. In Azimut's case, you have over 10 different companies each doing different boats electrical, however they see fit. There is no consistency and nobody follows the electrical diagrams. You have no quality control over what the sub-contractor does. That is the entire problem.

Sounds like you should be able to buy them cheap when no one can figure it out, rip it all out and start over and do it right. The again I suspect the electrical is not the only place this happened.

No, I don't. But I can't stand chest-thumping for the sake of it, whenever I see it.

Interesting that you are now moving on from bashing Azimut to the whole Italian boating industry.
What are we going to hear next, that you prefer McDonald's to Italian restaurants?

Never mind anyway, I don't think any Italian builder will tremble with fear.
They are more interested in folks who can actually buy their boats, rather than in their chauffeurs.

PS: ref.winches, I mentioned "emergencies that have nothing to see with docking".
Can't you really think of any? Have you ever heard of drogues?

Wow...

In this country Owners and Captains go hand in hand and often the Captains give advise to owners what or not to buy.

Hmmm, depends on which Italian restaurant. Been to a few (in Italia) where it was made clear that I was there as a gesture of benevolence on the waiters part.... Of course that was in the North. I'm sure you have plenty to say about "those people".......

Yes and no.
Based on the very same Mercedes block that in those days MAN used for their common rail 1224/1360hp, and very much comparable in terms of performance.
Including smoke at low rpm by the way, which was true of the pre-common rail MANs and also of earlier MTUs, but not of the TE94, which was already fully electronic.

But, and it's a big but, the 1320hp TE94 has been the swan song of the 183 series engine, for MTU.
As opposed to MAN, back in those days they had already decided to dismiss the 183 block, and move towards the 2000 series.
So, they stopped promoting all 183 engines, of which I think they sold very few of the TE94 version, in fact.
As a result, it isn't a well known engine, even among MTU dealers, on top of the fact that parts are eye-wateringly expensive (which is true of any MTUs, not just the TE94).

Bottom line, I'd rather not have the TE94s in my engine room.
Btw, I thought that the Aicon 64 were all MAN powered, but they did allow some flexibility depending on the buyer requests.
So, MTU engines must have been asked by the first owner, I suppose...

Touche' !

With an Azimut, at least the company is in business and there is some sort of support from Marine Max. I am pretty sure Aicon is not supported in the US at all now and I don't know if they are in business. Good luck finding parts or information if you buy an older Aicon.