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Help me spend 1.2 to 1.6 million on a yacht

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by thekellers, Nov 13, 2018.

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  1. thekellers, Nov 13, 2018
    #1
    thekellers

    thekellers New Member

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    Ok,

    Currently I am the owner of a 57 Carver Voyager...I have made a dozen 1-2 week trips and 2 3-4 week trips. I have left the Boat out in the Abacos for 4 months just once....and now it's time to take things to the next Level...The boat is kept in Jupiter Florida.

    Would like something in the 60 to 75 foot range...17 plus beam...

    would like 18 knot cruise minimum. Mann's 1000 hr service a negitive.. Well be towing a 30 something center console...

    Want a good spacious engine room with smartly laid out "reliable" mechanicals. Access is key.

    Three state rooms---would like the VIP to be Larger then your typical Vee birth. Spacious bathrooms a big plus..

    Flybridge is mandatory.."lower helm not necessary with enclose fly bridge. .with grill, seating for 6-8...some lounging...not sure hot tub is possible. Hard top if not enclosed Flybridge.

    Crew Quarters with kitchen in the stern a plus...as summer kitchen with storage or crew quarters...if not a toy garage..jet ski or two.

    Would like a larger kitchen/full size frig. Don't require a dedicated dinning table...creative solutions welcome. Stern seating for 6-8 required..unless area is available at the bow.

    Want to sit 6-8 in the salon.. perferably facing each other to encourage all present in conversation.

    Bow entertaining area a big plus...especially with enclose flybridge..

    Swim platform...

    Look forward to thought
  2. Capt Ralph, Nov 13, 2018
    #2
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Wake up from your dream.
  3. thekellers, Nov 13, 2018
    #3
    thekellers

    thekellers New Member

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    Not sure why this is a dream? Have seen 75 Azimut's, 70 Sunseeker Manhattans, 69 Marquis, 70 Hampton, 65 Fairlines all are in that range..some we liked better then others...looking for more thoughts ideas from people with more knowledge then we have.
  4. German Yachting, Nov 13, 2018
    #4
    German Yachting

    German Yachting Senior Member

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    Of those, no one on here will recommend an Azimut, the Sunseeker, Fairline, and Marquis won’t have large crew quarters, galleys, not very spacious engine rooms, and most likely will have MANs. I’m not the one with a ton of experience on this but towing a 30’+ center console from any of those boats seems daunting and would likely require reinforcements if plausible at all. I don’t think the Hampton would really be efficient at a 18 knot cruise and you won’t be towing anything at that speed. Realistically, you will need to make a lot more concessions on your wish list as to get everything you want would most likely require an 85 and a bigger budget.
  5. olderboater, Nov 13, 2018
    #5
    olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Are you thinking owner/operator or any crew?
  6. gr8trn, Nov 13, 2018
    #6
    gr8trn

    gr8trn Senior Member

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    I'm sure you typed in 60-80', $1M-$1.75 (I expanded for you as you may be a good negotiator), No Mans, Fly bridge, crew quarters...

    I did. On the first page is a nice 2005 Ferretti with Cat C30s and most of your list if not more. Missing facing salon seating. Everything seems to have a formal dining table set up in this size range.

    Nice 2001 LeClercq in Seattle. 8V92 Detroits. Salon with facing couches! No Dining room!

    A few cool 75' Viking Sports with Cats C32s, facing salon seating, crew quarters, full size fridge.

    Nice Sunseeker Manhattan 70 with Cat C32s in San Diego.

    Real nifty 67' Viking Sports Cruiser with Cat C18s in WI.

    Lot's of Azimuts. I mean lots.

    Lots of slow boats too.
  7. Pascal, Nov 14, 2018
    #7
    Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    You re goign to have to go thru YW and keep searching. Most of your criteria should be pretty straight forward except aft crew quarters with summer kitchen. Up to 80/85 aft crew quarter are usually too small to include a galley

    Salon seating can usually be modified. Full size refrigeration is standard in that size

    Surprised you re listing a hot tub but not stabilizers... a must for bahamas trips

    Bow seating didnt really become popular until a few years ago so in that price range you mayhave to settle for a sun pad.

    Again, you re going to have to search YW to see what fits your lenghty list
  8. thekellers, Nov 14, 2018
    #8
    thekellers

    thekellers New Member

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    Appreciate everyone input...and some helpful input...leads me to clarify some wants....

    I forgot stabilizers....so yes they should be standard...

    Most of the time we are looking to accommodate 4 people...any more then that my cranky old ass finds to hard to keep happy

    it will be owner/operator. and while I have 100ft slip..I think 75ft is a bout the limit I would be comfortable.

    the crew quarters is less for crew then some extra "clean storage" summer kitchen can be a small frig, two burner glass top and a sink...

    Would hope to hire a good Buyers agent..so negotiation should help with the price.

    My list was/is a list of wants...not of a list of needs...we all know boats are compromises...The Carver is in Tip top shape mechanically and aesthetically..kind of **** here..so I am not in a rush to sell a boat in great shape...and the buying process is a learning one....

    I already two a 23 footer and goes pretty smooth at this point. So a 30 contender 4800 lbs dry should not be a problem with bigger boats...I am not expecting a 18 knots cruise while towing

    There is a 65 Monte Carlo that "looks" nice but know nothing about them...and the 75 Vikings did appeal to me checking off many of my wants..

    I also find that I put way too much emphasis on aesthetics while on yacht world website...only to realize at the FLIBs that function trumped all.

    I think the big question is...can I be happy with trawler speeds or not...

    I know changing oil and routine maintenance on 1500hp engines is a lot more then changing oil and routine maintenance 600hp engines. Do trawlers "Marlows/Alaskans" have other cost of ownership savings? other then fuel burn of course

    The nice thing about the Azimuts..is there are so many, there must be one seller that is desperate.

    Thanks guys
  9. Capt J, Nov 14, 2018
    #9
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    72' Hatteras MY is what you're looking for. 2008-2012. Can do most everything you're looking for. Top quality. Might be slightly above your budget. You can always run a motoryacht slow to conserve fuel, but can also run 22 knots cruise whenever you want to. They have a crew quarters, have a formal dining table in the salon, have stabilizers, large kitchen and large fridge, has a nook in the crew quarters for a coffee pot, could put a hot plate there. It has 4 guest staterooms, so you could use the 4th stateroom (a very small bunk room) as clean storage if you so choose and easy to access from the other staterooms. But also has a nice queen bed crew stateroom and full size shower/head in the stern. Can easily tow a 30' center console.

    I wouldn't touch a Marlow, but the fast trawler types. What you save in oil changes and engine maintenance, you make up for 4 fold on varnish work, tons of varnish work. Also they're not as volumous as a motoryacht usually. The 72' Hatteras is a BIG 72'.

    I've found if you're looking for the best deal, go straight to the sellers agent. They're much more apt to cut commission to make a skinny deal work, when they have 2 commissions to work with! and are only getting half of the commission most of the time.
  10. RER, Nov 14, 2018
    #10
    RER

    RER Senior Member

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    So then, price is at the top of the list. Desperate sellers sometimes don't take such good care of their boats.

    For an owner/operator situation I would stick with USA built mostly because IMO they're usually more reliable and the miscellaneous bits and pieces are easier to work on. Also I agree with previous posts that your 'want list' is a bit much for 75 feet.
  11. thekellers, Nov 14, 2018
    #11
    thekellers

    thekellers New Member

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    Looked at the 2008 Hatteras....beautiful boat.. wasted bow....and out of my price range...300 hours a year is pretty good use. I need to be left with dollars to put into her after she is bought..that doesn't do it. But it was fun to dream.

    USA built is a very good point. But aren't 90% of boats built over seas?

    Want and need are two different things....Most of the time it will be a 2-6 person boat...anything over 75 is a bit of over kill in my opinion. And probably over my budget or of a lesser quality then I would want if it was in budget.
  12. cleanslate, Nov 14, 2018
    #12
    cleanslate

    cleanslate Senior Member

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    Lol!!
  13. JWY, Nov 15, 2018
    #13
    JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    I find almost everything in your statement objectionable. It shouldn't take a broker cutting commission for a buyer to have good negotiating done on his/her behalf. For all of the benefits a Buyer's Broker has to offer, the difference of 4 or 5% is not significant. The process of buying a boat based on "the best deal" is foolish.

    Judy
  14. Capt J, Nov 15, 2018
    #14
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    The OP stated that he is looking for a seller that is desperate and a great deal. In all of my experience, I have seen a multitude of times brokers cut commission (on their own decision) to make the deal work when the deal is very close but not enough money for the seller to accept. Let's face reality, if there is no buyers broker there is double the commission to work with. s

    I have seen some very good brokers and buyers brokers, but I have also seen a lot of brokers who have little knowledge of yachts and also ones that do have knowledge of yachts but very little experience in the type of yacht they happen to be selling. For example a broker that knows and specializes in Motoryachts, getting a listing for a custom Jim Smith SF which happens as some owners have multiple types of yachts, yet they have no clue about what they're trying to sell.

    Buyers brokers do have their place for most buyers and in most situations. But I also have some very long term yacht owners who pay a good knowledgeable Captain to look at the boat for them, then they go straight to the listing broker and make an offer. One of them bought his 29th yacht which I was managing for the seller (for example), he knew exactly what he was looking for in a yacht and exactly what things should look like on the yacht.
  15. JWY, Nov 15, 2018
    #15
    JWY

    JWY Senior Member

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    I don't want to derail the thread, but glad you finally added the statement "Buyers brokers do have their place for most buyers and in most situations." So if you're talking about cutting commission by excluding the buyer's broker, then please don't generalize and stereotype.

    Judy
  16. thekellers, Nov 15, 2018
    #16
    thekellers

    thekellers New Member

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    Not sure where I said I was looking for a desperate seller..I mentioned the only benefit to a Azimut would be a desperate seller . My experience is desperate sellers are most likely poor maintainers.... A realistic seller would be nice.

    This thread is not about hiring a buyers broker or not. I would say an experienced Captain is as good Brokers if he takes it upon himself to do the leg work to find the appropriate boat.

    And my experience in buying boats is once you pick a particular model.....Your buying the Seller not the boat.....The difference between one 75 Viking and the next 75 Viking is the "Seller" ....did he care for the boat or did he just fix what had to be fixed. Pick the boat, buy the seller.

    A suggestion was made for a Lazzara 68...not sure where that went...but also made a great point...if driving from the fly bridge..and everyone is below decks..hard to know how everyone is doing..Had an experience many many years ago..doing 50 mph...with my parents pinning themselves in the cuddy of a speed boat.... was 14...my father looked of death at the driver was memorable..a few choice words added
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2018
  17. Capt J, Nov 15, 2018
    #17
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    It came from the Azimut comment of lots of them for sale and desperate sellers.

    A LOT of the motoryachts in the size you're looking at have no lower helm. You either get a very nice dinette in that area or a lower helm. Hatteras doesn't even build a motoryacht with a lower helm anymore and hasn't for at least 5 years. The Euro builders tend to all have lower helms in the size you're looking at (Azimut, princess, sunseeker etc.) But the reason being, the vast majority of boats in that size range have a Captain and not the owner running it.

    A 68' Lazzara has a really nice layout in the interior, that is where they REALLY excelled. It has most all of the features you're looking for and is at the lower spectrum of your price range. Is a pretty efficient boat and has a shallow draft. The downsides are the seakeeping ability and overall quality (especially the gelcoat, it never REALLY shines or holds wax). The quality is comparable to what you have now as is the sea state I'd take a Lazzara 68' in (maybe 3-5' maximum). They have CAT C18's. But for your uses, it would definitely be a boat to consider. The problem is you have the wish list for a 100' yacht, not a 60-80' yacht. I would narrow down what you really want/need.
  18. RER, Nov 15, 2018
    #18
    RER

    RER Senior Member

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    Yes. Absolutely.
  19. thekellers, Nov 15, 2018
    #19
    thekellers

    thekellers New Member

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    This has always puzzeled me..yes I know older boats cost less...but all these boats have similar hours of use..they all look in decent condition...."from pics which all lie" And yes I know some boats are priced to sell, some are pie in the sky prices. .Some had design changes. Any other thoughts as two why two similiar boat can be priced so differently.

    Attached Files:

  20. Pascal, Nov 15, 2018
    #20
    Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    In addition to realistic vs unrealistic asking prices at quick glance the second one has been painted and has a new TNT platform. There may be other things, you d need to look at the details and see both boats.

    I m not familiar with the 68 but I ve been running an 2009 84 for a little over two years. I found the boat for the current owners who used to be repeat charter guests of hours on a Johnson 70. The 80 and 84 are the bigger brothers to the 68 and similar in construction and quality.

    You could probably find an 80 that may fit your budget. The 80 has 5 staterooms but no crew aft. Very nice galley. The engine room is fantastic and you have two storage pods on the transom for toys and PWC Plus tender storage on the top deck

    The 84 is out of your price range but essentially the same boat with crew quarters aft replacing the storage pods and reducing ER space. Still very good access though

    Quality is very good as well as attention to details and systems. I disagree with Capt J comparison to Carver.

    Performance and economy is a trade off to offshore ride quality. In our case it is worth it. The boat will handle a lot more seas than the passengers are willing to take. We ve put 1000 hours on the C32s with dozens of trips to the Exumas over the last 2+ years.

    The boat can cruise anywhere between 17 kts and 26 kts. In calm conditions fuel burn at 17kts is only 60gph, 20kts 72 gph and 26kts 110 gph. That s about 20% less than comparable 80/85 footers. But yes you will feel head seas a little more...

    Again not familiar with the 68 but i imagine the performance and efficiency will be comparable.

    One last thing. Keep in mind the condition of a 15 year old boat depends almost as much on previous upkeep than original quality. The 84 I run still has good gelcoat which clearly had been neglected in the past. It took some effort to bring it back to a good shine.
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