Princess or Sunseeker?

Just an anecdote about a Princess 39. I recently had to replace the float switch in the gray water sump on the boat. The sump is located in a bilge area under the electrical panel that's located in the aft guest forward bulhead. The float switch and pump wires had been trimmed to 6" and led into a junction box that was hidden behind the sump. The thing had clearly been assembled prior to the deck portion being assembled to the hull, and there was only enough access to reach the box with one hand and operating blind. No way to get another hand or head in there. I had to use an endoscope and my phone camera to watch and guide my screwdriver tip into the 90° cover release fasteners and then guide another screwdriver to the fasteners that held the junction box to the deck. Having released the box attachment, it was possible to see and release the electrical connections, but just barely due to the short wires. Unfortunately, when the sump overflowed, the water ran down the short wires into the junction box.

Since we caught the problem early enough, there was no corrosion damage and were able to dry, clean, and protect the connectors. We ended up moving the box to a more accessible spot and fastened it down with adhesive that would allow removal when the Rule float switch goes bad the next time. Incidentally, we always write the purchase/install date on Rule float switches so that we can return them when they fail in the guarantee period.

Hopefully, those issues have been fixed in production, but there were multiple faults that could have been anticipated during the build.

Probably worth mentioning, too, is that the Princess 39 uses a lot of plastic wood-grain coated 1/8" plywood or hardboard in a hollow core construction method. Some bulkheads are like cheap home-type hollow core closet doors.

It seems to me that you are attacking Anfisa because she recommended reading Mikolebi's blog, the creation of which was against your advice. So, why don't you contribute something useful by giving all of us your advice on how you would purchase a new Princess based on what you know of Mikolebi's experience (based on his blog, of course.)

Our advise is to survey everything,, old AND NEW. Never accept delivery of anything that is not correct.
Thought that was pretty much run into the ground on many threads.

Unfortunately surveys only reveal so much. It won’t warn you about systems that are unmaintanable because of ridiculous access.

Ever tried replacing a fresh water pump with one hand? I have when I foolishly offered to help a friend with a 46 Sea Ray...

Or the stupid lazzarette bilge pump on 84 Lazzaras with a sump that’s too small for the hose flow back. As much as i hate check valves I had no choice.

The list goes on. Yes surveys are a must but they don’t reveal everything

I did contribute by giving him advice until he made it clear he was going to ignore all advice given here.

I think his experience had to do with purchasing a boat that had suffered severe damage, not a factory new boat. When he was here we advised over and over that he go to the Factory, not just deal with the dealership location. I would have launched an investigation to find out the history of that boat and, if unsuccessful, I would have sued for the first time in my life to have the sale rescinded. I would have done all that without going public and forming a blog and done it in the mindset of settling and not having to sue. I advised him to not continue trying to get things fixed under warranty but to approach it on the basis of rescinding the sale. It's a misrepresented sale by someone if as he described, not a warranty claim. I wouldn't have accepted the boat if they agreed to fix everything as it wasn't what I'd bought. I've been sold something as new that wasn't before. People get sold refurbished items as new by unscrupulous retailers and on line.

Now, I do also believe in getting a new boat surveyed and that boat never would have passed and it would have uncovered the condition and perhaps even cause.

If the story of that boat is as he wrote, he got a horrifically bad deal done to him. I just didn't feel his approach to resolving it was wise and I don't feel sending a girl to refer more people to his blog helps him or anyone else. What was described might be the way that dealer does things, but most certainly isn't normal for Princess.

I don't know where or what happened to his boat but it's not the way Princess builds boats. It was something post build that occurred. I wish he'd contacted the factory and gotten a response from then and shared that but he didn't.

I would personally not buy a Princess but it's more a matter of performance and ride and quality of decorative materials.

No, surveys don't reveal everything, but sure would have revealed many of the problems he had and I would have gotten a survey even after taking ownership, just to get a formal independent opinion. If a situation like this does end up in court, the survey may be what wins it for you. Until then it's a disgruntled buyer against professional boat builders. A survey, even one done later than ideal, can change that entirely. A judge or jury will look at a list of things signed by a surveyor far different than done by the buyer. I believe a surveyor would have also said it didn't seem like a new boat but one that had been damaged or neglected.

I've seen new boats left out in the elements at dealerships suffer greatly, boats on the wrong ship in the wrong area suffer greatly, and boats sunk along the way at one or another location.

I will also say that his most recent blog post talks about a one year old Princess with extensive "cracking" and a surveyor did an excellent write up of probable causes. The blog originator could have benefitted similarly.

Last the blog originator uses the word "Princess" to refer to all the various locations including the dealership. However, when asked he had not gone back and talked to the builder.

I wasn't looking for a repeat of your advice on how Mikolebi should get out of his predicament; you were clear about that as well as surveys in the other thread. I was looking for what someone should do to prevent getting into that predicament with Princess in the first place.

You say, "What was described might be the way that dealer does things, but most certainly isn't normal for Princess." Surely, Princess has heard about Mikolebi's situation, and, yet, all of the problems haven't been fixed. So, what would you say is normal for Princess as far as it's relationships with its dealers are concerned?

Are you serious when you say that Anfisa referring others to Mikolebi's blog doesn't help anyone else? If I were to consider ordering a new Princess, I would introduce myself to the dealer, tell him or her the model I was interested in, and then have a long talk about Mikolebi's blog. How the dealer behaved during that blog-talk would determine whether I continued with the ordering process or just said, "Thanks, but no thanks."

In my dealings with Princess North America, they are very good about taking care of warranty items and getting them done in a fairly timely fashion. They don't try to deny covering things, like in my dealings with companies such as Azimut. If the dealer doesn't handle warranty repairs in a timely and good fashion then you get the manufacturer involved.

I would definitely not recommend the dealer Mikolebi worked with and would run far away from dealing with them. That, however, doesn't poison my thoughts on Princess as I've not known of similar issues with any of their US dealers. I don't have any knowledge that Princess Corporate Group is aware of or involved with Mikolebi's problems. I asked, but never got any response indicating they were.

Capt J mentions Azimut. Well, they're a good reference I think. Azimut is handled completely in the US by one dealer including all warranty claims and there is no one above them to reach out to. Based on that dealer's service, I would never purchase a new Azimut in the US. However, in Europe they have a far better reputation.

This is only for the East Coast now. Alexander Marine bought all of Marine Max’s West Coast locations and serves as the dealer for Azimut now. Doesn’t really apply to the OP but might help change the stigma a bit.

Perhaps it will although Marine Max still controls all warranty issues. In fact, they refer to Alexander selling Azimut, Galeon, and Aquila as Marine Max's partner-dealer.

100% on it.

Because another 'new' member just posted the same link, it's obvious this is a smear campaign. Their memberships have been removed and the original link to their website has been deleted.

Drive by shooters.

Good analogy.

What's sad is that Princess has some legitimate problems. There are some boats being delivered to customers with issues. If we go back to the original question of Princess or Sunseeker, my response is solidly for Sunseeker. However, people showing up to make one post to link to another site are clearly plants and do no good. It doesn't matter how many times you link to a blog, it's still only one boat and we never got a lot of answers.

I will doubly second the Sunseeker over Princess. I've been dealing with both brands lately and have seen lots of problems.

I often wonder if he knew what he was buying and then later tried to force them into doing repairs that weren't part of his deal. I'm thinking it might have been a repo boat.

Boat was supposedly brand new from a dealer. After seeing the things I've seen, if left attended (for the most part) with minimal maintenance I can see how all of those issues would arise.

Yes and no. Took a long time before it ever made it to the dealer including sitting on a yard for a lengthy period and being shipped. We have no idea what else. Left out, allowed to get filled by snow and rain while on the yard, exposed on the ship, who knows what else. We certainly don't. Neglect a boat, leave one exposed to the elements, a lot can happen.

I agree but what the guy supposedly bought was a "NEW" boat from a Princess dealer. Meaning the boat came with a MSO and didn't have any prior registered owners. And yes, A LOT can happen before a boat is even sold. I saw a freighter load a boat bow down and the flybridge filled with water and held a foot of water or more, that ran down wiring chases and into the interior of the boat and drenched it for a month.