Seaworthiness comparison between two yachts

There's a blog out there from some folks who took a 42 Silverton Convertible from Boston (I think) to St. Thomas. Just about got their a$$e$ handed to 'em on the last leg of seriously open water. So much for weather windows. Apparently the boat actually did "fine" though (sorta-kinda) but most of their stuff was all jumbled up inside. (Maybe the newer 45s and 48/50s would do even better?)

Anyway, not a recommendation or argument; merely using that to mention that often the boat (many boats) can stand much more than the crew can take.

-Chris

OK, I gotta weigh in here. Now don't take this personal, but you are getting waaaaay ahead of yourself. You say you're inexperienced, but you're asking whether to climb Everest in Nikes or Adidas sneakers if you get the metaphor. It is neither the right equipment, nor should you be climbing Everest. Anything outside of TowBoat US range on a halfway decent day is Everest.

Any large water, but the ocean in particular, is very unforgiving of unprepared and under equipped mariners. Yes there are plenty of stories of amazing journeys by people in boats that (both) shouldn't have been out there, but there are many more stories of those that didn't make it and were called fools. And then there are many, many more that were prepared and were seasoned mariners and didn't come back. Do not underestimate the sea. It tolerates us with a bemused smile, most of the time. I have been out there quite a few times, I have seen it's fury, and not nearly as bad as some have. I have a deep respect for it.

You have time, this is good. My advice to you is to get some training and rent on the Chesapeake, the Gulf, the Great Lakes. Sizable bodies of water that can kick your butt. I've been on Lake Erie in squalls and suddenly a 36 foot boat in 10-12 footers is not that simp-le a proposition anymore. Learn boat handling in heavy weather, navigation when the electronics quit, line handling.... learn to FIX boats. (No one is going to come and change your fuel filters 300 miles from shore). You'll be on a Coast Guard chopper and leaving it.

And learn BOATS. Design, build techniques. The difference between a 50,000 pound 48' trawler and a Sea Ray of the same length. How they take waves, wether on the bow, the beam or breaking over the stern. Plastic through hulls versus bronze through hulls. Waterproof bulkheads. Ventilation and keeping the water out of the boat. Windows that will take a wave and ones that won't. It goes on and on and on.

We could tell you which of the two boats is (marginally) more seaworthy, but IMHO neither is. I've seen boats like that in trouble on bays and lakes. I wouldn't take either "out there" and neither should you.

In fact, in the end there is no guarantees, and even the most seaworthy boats can get themselves in a pickle. First YOU need to be seaworthy, and learn what that means. Then YOU decide what equipment YOU think is worth taking the risks with.

No one here can answer that question for you, nor can we recommend anything that would make YOU safe out there right now.

Wise advice Oscarvan. And with wisdom, comes status. You're officially a Senior Member now. Welcome to YF's Old Phart club!

I will tell the wife and we will celebrate tonight! Seriously, I appreciate the compliment.

I was reading the guys posting in horror! I had visions of him putting Coasties in danger because of a rescue!
I have a Navigator 5300 with a zero interest of going out in blue water! I spent 6 years in the Navy in blue water, and during good weather it was boring, and caught on the edge of a typhoon, not boring! That was on a 390' destroyer with an experienced Captain! Nope! I'm perfectly happy to hang in the Puget Sound with a someday of doing the Inside Passage to AK. Note, "Inside Passage" with other boats for company!

The Navigator VP of Sales told me about the time he took a boat to the boat show. Tight schedule, bad weather, no experienced crew, all the good stuff. The boat had zero hours, no break-in whatsoever.

He met the boat as it was being offloaded from the truck, they had a factory crew put it back together. There was a tight weather window with an early Hurricane warning. He ran the boat to the show with the factory crew putting her back to show condition underway, ran into the tail end of that weather system, and noted he was the only boat out there for the time being. Spent a tough 48 hours in weather conditions you would avoid at all costs, had to "lay to" for awhile rolling on beam ends, basically from salon side to salon side. None of the factory crew had ever been out on the ocean before!

Anyways, they came through mostly unscathed, some extra clean-up for the show. People couldn't believe they were out in that stuff, the moral of the story is that your boat will take more than you think or can. It takes the right person behind the wheel making good decisions when faced with adverse conditions.

People tend to claim a Hatteras or a Viking or a Bertram are the only things afloat that can accomplish a passage that may be open to rough conditions. Hogwash, boats of all types have done passages of all kinds. Will it be cozy and nice and you won't spill a drink? Hell no, but you can get to the other side in many craft that don't start with an H or V or B. It just takes the right person behind the wheel making good decisions when faced with adverse conditions. Get your sea time, properly outfit your boat, and enjoy the rewards.

It must have been kinda scary to take the factory people from boat building in the desert to getting toss around on a virgin boat!
I get it. I'm sure that FIQ can handle semi serious water. It's just that I'm not interested in blue water sailings. I'm only interested in the Puget Sound up to the Charlotte Islands, and then later the Inside Passage. I'm looking forward to when I retire in a couple of years to go up to Winter Harbour on NW Vancouver Island for some extended fishing.

So I did not say any brand could take any seas whatsoever, and nice move to jump on a houseboat as your example.

I did state that there is a noticeable trend in these types of discussions to state that n Hatteras, Viking or Bertram is the way to go for an open ocean crossing of this discussion.

The European classifications are VERY serious. They are not a marketing scheme by any measure.

The CE stability ratings are useful and there are some tricks to recognize.
They essesentially take the Naval Architects righting moment calculations and compare them to the Windage from the Lateral Profile and at the same time include downflooding locations such as engine room vents, door openings, etc. There are a few more parameters that have influence as well.
If you have enough area in your Righting Arm curves when compared to the different category metrics, you pass and get the rating (simplified version) . Basically your hull form that supports your deck and house has to exhibit enough energy to overcome the heeling moments without allowing flooding points to be submerged.
So you can make some gains by playing with downflooding points and your boat profile. That is why you see some ridiculously low radar arches and there can be exceptions to hard tops and enclosures. And the trend has been to move engine room vents from the hull sides to above the sheer line or inside the cockpit.
A double cabin MY with bridge and aft deck enclosures will have a hard time making B without some tricks.
There are some A rated boats that would surprise you as well as B, the difference can come down to Downflooding Points like engine room vents. Most people are fine with a B, an A rating should really be for a true blue water boat, which some A rated boats are not.

Even cost reduced brands that look like they should be able to take some seas, I have witnessed windows blown in from just bow splash and small white water.

We use these big names ; Hatteras, Viking or Bertram because we have been on them when the water gets ******. When we want to come home and not have problems, we lean to what we know.
I have been on many others (and not house boats) that have fell apart in just choppy stuff.
I ran a newer Lurhs 40 express (showing my age again) to the Bahamas and found broken welds on the tower and the forward bed splintered in pieces just from slow 4 footers when we arrived.
2 months later I returned the boat back to St Aug in slow 2 footers. On arrival, the boat was totaled. The factory bought the boat back.

Been thru heck on or ole bert. Just turned 40 this year. Other than some sea-sick kats, never an issue.

I,ve been on C Crafts, W Crafts that looked good and watched caps come apart. A NoavTech was falling apart in close 4 footers.
Tough ole Fleming got my attention one night, not fast but well built and handled some **** well.

So I'll retype this slower for the reading impaired;
We use these big names ; Hatteras, Viking or Bertram because we have been on them when the water gets ******. When we want to come home and not have problems, we lean to what we know.

By your accounts then all another builders should throw in the towel.
Even though I have seen plenty of Hatteras’ catch fire, sink with loss of life in Mag Bay, get pounded rounding Point Conception to oblivion not to mention Bertram’s famous 54 blowing its main bulkhead when they first brought one up to the Great Lakes and the much heralded 1988 72 SF fall apart before the Ferretti regime owned them.

I have said this before, all builders have had their misses, no one is immune.

Our 44 Pacifica made two Offshore trips to Socorro Island off Mexico with the previous owner, that is no mans land and no H, V or B SF under 50 could ever or did do that. I could repeat that if you need. We fished our 42 Uniflite hard for 10 years went everywhere a 42/ 46 H or V or B, first out of the Harbor, last in, plenty of blue water over the anchor windlass, never knew the difference out on the water amongst the “hallowed” three.

An older 48 Offshore Sedan can more than deliver on the OP’s wish list.

Come on, A Hat catching fire is a sea worthy issue? Not knowing the event, I can tell you all about that.
When a Hat sinks, same reasoning above one line.
SFB owners, not a Hat issue. Duh...

I was commenting on old boats (owners budget), not FEBs.

By your accounts then all another builders should throw in the towel.
For open water cruising, a lot of them should. Maybe save some lives.
I remember a big expensive Cruisers Yacht coming apart inbound in the StJohns inlet one day. Came all around from Tennessee new.

The next life saver would be the owner operator, not purchasing some cheap build and trying to push an envelop where his experience and the boats can not handle any situation.

I feel the Darwin effect coming on next and a argument defending it.

Maybe we should of included SOME Uniflights in the list but they are hardy talked about much these days. Some were great boats.