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Should I buy an Azimut 86S? Questions!

Discussion in 'Azimut Yacht' started by LukeBrick, Aug 17, 2018.

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  1. LukeBrick, Aug 17, 2018
    #1
    LukeBrick

    LukeBrick New Member

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    Hey guys, just wondering what your thoughts on the Azimut 86S. She is a very slick looking yacht, and the perfect size for me. I hear there are some problems with Azimut, not sure what models and how it applies.

    I see the 86S can be found in the low 1M's, I've even seen a 2006 86S for 850k with only 600 hours. Is the price warning of things that might have gone wrong? Interior is not amazing. Couldn't that be fixed up for a few hundred k?

    I'm not really wanting to spend over 1.5m and want a sporty yacht, not a fan of most fly bridges. Also, a good looking interior is essential. Most of them are honestly crap. AB & Pershing... ****** interior.

    Other thoughts... with the variance of prices, couldn't one refurbish the interior to look like a brand new yacht? I've never remodeled a yacht before, no clue the costs. How far would 600k go in remodeling the interior? Hope its not like private jets were they charge 2M for a few hudred square feet...

    This one has my interest due to it's low price. https://www.**************/boats/2006/Azimut-86S-2945560/Italy?refSource=browse listing#.W3drzehKjVc

    But realistically this one looks like the most well taken care of yacht. https://www.**************/boats/2010/Azimut-86-S-3212567/Grand-Haven/MI/United-States?refSource=browse listing#.W3dxg-hKjVc -- Fresh water, 700 hours... interior looks gorgeous. Huge price difference. 1.3m to be exact.... couldn't that just be poured into a cheaper yacht to refurb the interior and fix any mechanical issues?

    I don't mind pouring money into upgrading things, as long as there aren't core problems. Anyway, cheers! Also, if your like "Woah no, way better yachts for that price" let me know for sure. Open to all suggestions for research.
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2018
  2. Beau, Aug 17, 2018
    #2
    Beau

    Beau Senior Member

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    Do you have any experience on boats this size?
  3. LukeBrick, Aug 17, 2018
    #3
    LukeBrick

    LukeBrick New Member

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    Captaining? Yes. Owning? No.
  4. Pascal, Aug 18, 2018
    #4
    Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    Personally I think the engine room, no.... make that the engine compartment, is a deal killer... maintaining the systems is going to cost three times what it would on another boat.

    The layout is cramped... narrow saloon, galley down ... this only work if you have a full time chef. There is a reason why most US boats have large country kitchen styled galley.

    We were once rafted up to one of these belonging to a friend of a one of our charter guests. I stepped on those white bulges on the swim platform and thought I was going to go thru. The captain saw my face and smiled explaining it was all delaminated... he also mentioned they were having issues thru out the boat

    Sexy lines, yes. But that s it.
  5. Danvilletim, Aug 18, 2018
    #5
    Danvilletim

    Danvilletim Senior Member

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    That's a tiny 86' boat.
  6. Capt Ralph, Aug 18, 2018
    #6
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    There are a few Mut fans on YF. The owners.
    A few of us service these beast. Never a kind word from us.
  7. LukeBrick, Aug 18, 2018
    #7
    LukeBrick

    LukeBrick New Member

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    Good info, never been on one. Watched a vid, woah the galley is so cramped! Awful.

    What are some good alternatives? The predators don't look too bad.
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
  8. Pascal, Aug 18, 2018
    #8
    Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    European boats are often poorly adapted to how we use boats in the US as they are all set up for stern passerelle boarding which often doesnt work here with fixed docks and finger piers. Half the time the passerelle is blocked by a dock box or pedestal. Boarding from the side at fixed dock requires acrobatics due the lack of gates.

    Euro builders also dont use rub rails which are a must if you regularly back into the typical slip with pilings

    I m not a big fan of these flybridge less boats as you loose a lot of usable space but that s obvioulsy a personal preference

    Did you look at the Lazzara LSXs? I think they made a 76 and a 92. I ve been running an 84 skylounge for the last 2 years and really like the quality, systems, layout and performance.
  9. LukeBrick, Aug 18, 2018
    #9
    LukeBrick

    LukeBrick New Member

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    I have not. Wow, the Lazzara 75 has a significantly better layout, nice sized galley and much more open. How is it in terms of parts, etc as I know the muts are a pain to service.

    If I were to look at some fly bridge models, which one preserve the lines pretty well? Some of them look a bit clunky IMO.

    Never seen the IPS engines before, interesting. Looks like it saves a ton of space. How reliable are they? Can they take a beating? 400nm range on the 75' which is great. How much is it to replace one of those engines? The EU yachts always seem to have the MTU setup.

    Lazzara doesn't have much of a website.. ?
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2018
  10. LukeBrick, Aug 18, 2018
    #10
    LukeBrick

    LukeBrick New Member

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    Also, is it pretty easy on yachts to replace the chart plotters? I really like the new Garmin/Raymarine plotters.
  11. YachtForums, Aug 18, 2018
    #11
    YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    LukeBrick,

    We've published 7 reviews on various Lazzaras but not much 'mut coverage. Lazzara is long gone but not because they built a bad boat, they just had bad timing...

    https://www.yachtforums.com/superyacht/lazzara-yacht.46/
  12. Liam, Aug 19, 2018
    #12
    Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    4 x IPS on a 76 Lazzara with 5.5 liter engine is just a time bomb.

    Want a similar boat to the Azimut 86 S look at the Pershing 88 or 80, and a Mangusta 80 or Leopard 27m.
    The 86 S was available in high performance propulsion Arneson Surface Drives and or Jet Drives. Most where made with the former then the latest which was a more expensive option.
  13. LukeBrick, Aug 19, 2018
    #13
    LukeBrick

    LukeBrick New Member

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    How is it a time bomb? Curious. And jeez, they went out of business, that's encouraging...

    Here's my opinions of everything.

    1. Mut's look great from inside and out, but I hear service is awful, and they have so many problems. (Would this be a problem out of warranty? Someone mentioned sorting things out efficiently 3rd party)
    2. Pershing - nice yacht, interior is awful.
    3. AB - same deal, awful interior.
    4. Mangusta is way to old, looking for sexy lines.
    5. Leopard, it's alright, nice interior. But do not like the metal railing on the sides, looks odd... ruins the lines.

    Ughhhh...

    I hate most yacht interiors, some it's the floor plan and some are the wood options, fixtures, etc. They look old and like a house. I love the new Azimut interior's 2017+. Or brand new yacht interiors in general. They took a step away from the cherry mono-tone wood covering the yacht and went to contrasting colors, marble counters, clean and minimalist type design, etc. How far does money go on a 80' yacht? Lets say I want new flooring, fixtures, furniture, doors, bathroom counter tops redone... all the jazz making it look like a brand new yacht.

    I just want this https://www.**************/boats/2006/Azimut-86S-2945560/Italy?refSource=browse listing#.W3kVvM5Kiyo

    To look like this. --http://www.****************/azimut77s.html (look at interior)

    Now the Azimut on yachtworld has a pretty nice interior compared to most. But you get the point.

    What do you estimate a full renovation to looking like the new 77s would cost? Heck, a million dollar renovation in a house... not sure thats even possible. Surely it can't be THAT expensive for a yacht. Same materials, just labor?

    I guess what I'm trying to get at is -- I want a new looking yacht, but not pay for 0 hours and a 2018 production year.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
  14. Liam, Aug 19, 2018
    #14
    Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    Any under powered planning boat is a time bomb. Also Lazzara electronics are not really trouble free, even though they looked all gizmos at the time, I would say some of it is to complicated for my taste.
    5.5 liter per engine even though it has four are little for a boat of that size.

    Full interior refit on an 86 S you are looking at around one million. Mangusta / Leopard / AB Yachts where pretty much semi custom so interior will be different from one model to the other.
    Pershing is like Azimut and was in most cases a fully production boat unless you had really deep pockets and then they would say yes.
    I was in an engine room of 86 S and found it okay for day to day inspections. If you want shafts you can also consider a Riva and or Sunseeker.

    A friend of myn with a 62S had a yard remove his engine in three hours which is pretty slick. There is a generation plus of difference between a 77S and an 86S which is not little.
    Azimut also had the 72S but I do not know if that is too small.
  15. LukeBrick, Aug 19, 2018
    #15
    LukeBrick

    LukeBrick New Member

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    I really like the Mut's, not gonna lie, they are my favorite for the price point of around 1M, just wondering how much trouble they will give me down the road. What do most people experience? Is it minor systems, or engine system failures?

    Second question, does a renovation to the yacht help it's resale value? Let's say the yacht is in good mechanical condition. It's purchased at 1M and has another 1M poured into it with brand new interior, new painted hull, etc. Basically a 2008 looking like a 2018.

    Would people recognize this? It's frequent to see huge price differences in the same yacht based upon it's looks.

    How much does it cost to repaint a yacht? I tried looking it up, people's numbers are all over the place by the ft. I want nice quality work. And electronics are easily replaceable right? New Garmin systems, etc.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2018
  16. Liam, Aug 19, 2018
    #16
    Liam

    Liam Senior Member

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    In an 86S if you paint only shipside you are looking at around 100k and 100k for topsides, here in the med.

    The interior is much dependent on how you do it. It is something of a personal taste, and while you might like a modern wenge/oak mix others may like a more classic look.
    That other might be the next buyer of your boat and because you made it of Wenge will see the extra one million expense as useless and buy another boat.
  17. LukeBrick, Aug 19, 2018
    #17
    LukeBrick

    LukeBrick New Member

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    What would you estimate the yearly maintenance cost per year would be on her? Is it possible to finance remodeling a yacht, or would I have to pay cash for everything.
  18. Pascal, Aug 19, 2018
    #18
    Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    There is only so much you can do in a refit. Wiring, plumbing and even air con isn’t going to be redone. again looking at the cramped ER i can only imagine how tough serious work is going to be.

    100 to 125k is probably what I would cost to repaint a boat that size.

    Typically on boats you ll get at the most 50 cents on the dollars back if you resell quickly. So... put a million dollar worth of lipstick on a million dollar pig and you ll be out at least 500k If you re lucky and if what ever was untouched is still in great shape by the time you sell.
  19. LukeBrick, Aug 19, 2018
    #19
    LukeBrick

    LukeBrick New Member

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    You can refit the interior to your hearts desire, right? What are the limitations on interior design?

    Why can't wiring, plumbing, and aircon be redone? What if they are aging or not preforming to their rated specs?
  20. Capt Ralph, Aug 19, 2018
    #20
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    I have learned the hard way; If your going to flip a boat, you need to steal it at purchase.
    Then;
    Fix all mechanical options. Make all service areas are spotless.
    A/Cs have to blow ice cold, replace these if needed.
    The engines need to be spotless, updates and all documentation / records up to date.
    Gen sets need to be spotless, updates and all documentation / records up to date. Including new sound covers. Old dinged and rusted out sound covers will distract a lot.

    Do not race out and get an all new fancy electronics suite. But it all has to work.
    Yearly these devices are obsolete, let the next owner buy the latest and greatest per their spec.

    Cosmetics;
    A new paint job may not be the color the next owner wants. You will never get what you put into a paint job any way.
    However, fix all dings and scratches. Match the color as best as you can but no blems in the hull.
    All rails and deck hardware must be perfect. Davits, windlass, mast, trim rails, weather windows and decks must be perfect.

    New interior may not be what the next owner wants. You will never get what you put into it anyway.
    Fix all dings, galley items, handrails, lighting and cold storage. No body wants to see a fridge with bad gaskets or stained/rusted doors.
    Have new cushions made for the furniture but don't replace.
    If the carpets are really worn, replace all cheap with a neutral color. Next owner will probably change it out any way.
    Oh, Carpet in Very Last.

    Every hatch, door, companionway clean, fresh gaskets and no wear from fat shoulders & buts. Every corner clean.

    Overheads clean. Next owners will probably replace it anyway also.

    Again, you will never regain your money redecorating or painting the boat. You want to market a sound, solid, ready to run anywhere with no excesses, turn key boat ready for the next owners final personal touches. You and the market can not choose what colors or interiors will sell, Leave that to the next owner.

    During all this, use the boat. Remember, your looking out the windows when your cruising.

    When your ready to market the boat, put a reasonable price on her. You will have spent big money by this time but with an honest smile, you and the surveyor will know she is a good deal and a solid investment for the next owner to finish to THEIR taste.

    IMO, there is nothing wrong with a Lazzara. Muts are a gamble.
    Please search and read all past threads on Y F. Thru the years many have commented of these boats and lots more.
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