European tariffs on U.S. Boats

I believe you are correct, our politicians did not enforce a reciprocity principle. They followed the principle of reduce cost of living in here regardless of trade balance. As the USD currency has strengthened, this might be the right time to pursue some rebalance.

Hard to believe that our people structuring these trade deals allowed us to get in this vulnerable position of not providing our own basic manufacturing needs. The WTO is directly responsible for the trade rules we have today, which has put the US in a bad position, our loss their gain.

We usually end up on the short end of the stick in these badly structured trade deals. (from post 34 above)

The fix had to start somewhere. The magic finger was finally flown.
The other ambidextrous finger may fly soon if NAFTA does not get it's due adjustments or canned completely.

I believe all will come around to our positive.
The employment numbers may bounce around a bit but in a year or two, we (USA) will be better than we are now.

One important part that started this mess; Did somebody flip that switch to our steel industry? Are they gearing up or 100% on line yet?
If they drag their (union?) feet to keep prices up even to ourselves, then were screwed. All this for nothing.

Couple of days ago I saw the interview of a steel exec who said they were opening the first new steel mill in years.

I agree that it s not just foreign competition but everything you mentioned as well, and more like that disastrous health care law...

We need to wake up. There maybe some pain but we have to fix this mess

Ask and ye shall be rewarded. Link to chart showing average tariffs from 1988 to 2016. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/TM.TAX.MRCH.WM.AR.ZS

Our duties were typical of most of the world. The real high duties were mostly smaller countries needing the revenue.

From another site, the highest tariffs in the world were https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/040115/which-countries-have-highest-tariffs.asp mostly in the Caribbean. Bahamas number one. Lowest were Singapore and Hong Kong and Canada was near the bottom.

Now, we need to get back on boats and they were not subject to tariffs very widely before all this, just the small US one that amazingly still led to a lot of people flagging offshore and all the "can't be sold in US". Then boat components where the steel and aluminum were new tariffs. Also, it should be noted that China only supplies the 10th most steel to the US at $1 billion a year. Canada supplies $5.1 billion, South Korea $2.8, Mexico $2.1, Brazil $2.4, Germany $1.8, Japan $1.7. This being the reason Canada and Mexico responded with Tariffs. The boat builders in the gulf coast area who build for commercial and offshore oil are those hardest hit, but recreational aluminum builders are struggling too. It's significant when the largest manufacturer of nails in the US is in danger of shutting down, not an industry most of us even thought of. Aluminum boats were the way to get into boating cheapest and suddenly they're hit.

One plant has reopened but there is not the capacity available in the US to make up the difference. Facilities closed 30 years ago aren't available.

Whether it's interest rates or raw material shortages or labor unions or environmental regulations or taxes or tariffs or just plain old competition business is business. Because a company has been operating for the past 50 years doesn't give them a guarantee they're going to be operating for the next 50.

Companies that can figure out ways to overcome will survive those that can't won't.

I could fill the computer screen with names of companies that everyone knows that no longer exist. Entire industries in some cases. I realize the subject of this forum is boats but the fact is that the issue of tariffs and trade is far more complex than how it affects export boat sales.

Yes, clearly more complex, but the topic here is how does it impact the boating industry as among the first targets on imports to the US is steel and aluminum and among the first targets of US exports is boats. If you're a Florida builder who just had the order cancelled on the $4 million boat you were about to build or the production builder who has a shipment headed to a foreign port and the dealer has said they won't take it (tariff on 12 small boats, $750k), then that's what you care about. If you're a US dealer of a foreign boat, you're sitting worried about the next move. If you're the employee sent home for an early July 4 vacation, you're worried. If you produce Grumman canoes and you can't find materials at an affordable price, you're worried, especially since 25% of your business is to Canada and now a 10% tariff.

Yes, there's a broader complex issue, but when it's your job or your business or your family, that's not really what you care about at the moment. When you live in Fort Lauderdale, a community that depends on the boating industry, you talk to a lot of worried people.

The bad trade deals restricted our exports while increasing imports. Agree about the EPA, OSHA, Unions, and way too much regulation have hurt business and force many to move manufacturing offshore. Hard to fix it with the relentless lobbying in DC by American and foreign interest. Meanwhile waiting to see a response to the new EU tariffs including boats.

Oh No, That E word.
Evil from with in.
Now that it's brought up (again) Lets talk about that E group.
While everybody is grabbing their parts and gasping; Waho,,,, over this trade tariff,, Lets us remember who drove our industry offshore and/or made it to expensive in calendar days to compete.
FM, the fertilizer and bug control regulations made it cheaper for tomatoes to come in. Went down hill from their.
The Don, has to dump more of these stupid EPA rules (he has started).
Were eating more insecticides now than ever before, but that's not EPA controlled.

Could you stop with the political BS please.....way off topic and doesn't belong here

How hard will it be for manufacturers to reboot if tariffs are called off in, say, 2 weeks?

Relatively easy assuming buyers and European dealers want to pretend it never happened. Now, one can't predict what level of acrimony and distrust will remain. My feeling is that much like the luxury tax debacle, there would be a fairly quick recovery because people want their boats. Now, this is based on 2 weeks. At 4 weeks, it's twice as difficult and by the time you reach 2 to 3 months, it's highly improbable as people have just moved on. Dealers and buyers won't and can't just sit back assuming a repeal.

Ran a scan on Yachtworld 2000/2018 MY's and PH's. Most are foreign built imports.. What is the percentage of Foreign imports vs US export boats to the EU? What were the EU tariffs before their increase vs US tariffs?

There were no EU tariffs on boats. Don't have the percentages, but imports/exports split by size and type. On smaller production boats like Sea Ray, Glastron, Chaparral and others, there are far more exported to the EU than imported. Some production sail boats imported and Beneteau has reasonable volume but nothing on the scale of those going the other way. However, on larger boats and yachts, it's the reverse. The imports into the US are many times what the exports are. There just aren't very many US builders in larger sizes left. It's pretty much Hatteras, Westport, and a boat here and there from the custom builders. Meanwhile being imported to the US you have huge volumes from the UK and Italy and then a good quantity from the rest of the EU.

Now, looking separately at Canada. The volume exported to Canada is several times that of the volume imported to Canada. Turning to Mexico, it's almost all export to Mexico and very little import from although some used boats purchased there by Californians.

Beneteau builds boats for the US market in South Carolina.

OB, hanks for that info, easier to understand the outcome. Going from zero to 25% will probably stop most US exports to the EU, if it holds. Not good for those left. Seems I read some foreign builders are planning production here.

Yes, most of them today, although not all. Beneteau also owns US builders who export to the EU. So, Beneteau is today more impacted by the EU tariff than any tariff the US might choose to put into place.

At what point might Beneteau pull a Harley Davidson move and start building some Glastrons and Four Winns in Europe? To my knowledge they don't do so today. If you know otherwise, please say so.