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Is my Newmar charging cooking batteries?

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by Ed Tillett, May 11, 2016.

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  1. Ed Tillett

    Ed Tillett New Member

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    I'm a few weeks away from launch and need to confirm whether anyone has any experience with the Newmar Perfect Wave 32V charger. I just installed 4 new 8V batteries (165AH / deep cycle) and had my Newmar charger rebuilt. The cables are correctly installed and the charger is set up properly for output and battery type. I've got SO2 coming out of one, or more, of the batteries during charge. Is it possible that the Newmar is cooking the batteries? This is the same charger/inverter that purportedly cooked a brand new bank of batteries back in February while the boat was being delivered. What am I missing? Newmar says it doesn't manufacture this model any longer, but repaired it two weeks ago. Did they miss a component during the repair...that is...the "smart" side of the device? It's drawing a lot of power while in charge mode, humming the breaker and pumping in the amps.
  2. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    What do you consider cooking? Flooded batter gassing off?
    What are the voltage levels from a reliable DVM at the battery? Bank config?
    Cooking flooded or another type of battery?
    Charger set up correctly?
    Not so old batteries?

    Pumping in the amps near sounds like still a bad battery or something else is really drawing the current. Turn off or remove all sources of drain. Solor or wind regulators disconnected?
  3. Ed Tillett

    Ed Tillett New Member

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    Flooded batteries. Brand new. 8V, serially connected for 32V. Gassing off. Water in cells bubbling. Charger set correctly. Will check all cells today with hydrometer. Will shut down all systems and check voltage output of charger. This is the same configuration that ruined $1,200 worth of batteries back in February. Wondering if Newmar is reliable and whether the $900 just spent on a rebuild of the charger was worth it. Don't want to keep buying new batteries - or worse.
  4. Bahma

    Bahma Member

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    I'd be very careful ......a properly functioned charger should not cause xs gassing, certainly not boiling, nor heating of the battery.

    Sounds to me that you are already cooking those new batteries.

    A good properly functioning, modern charger will charge in a sequence which gradually reduces the charge rate until when full, it will start to cycle, while doing so it will maintain a full charge without harm
  5. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    To me the disturbing part is not figuring out the cause the first time. If it was the charger, then I would not trust a rebuild of that same charger. However, it might be something else entirely and the charger also damaged. Unless something is addressed and fixed, it will happen a third time.
  6. Ed Tillett

    Ed Tillett New Member

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    Thanks, Gents. Agree on trying to figure out the cause of the issues the first time around. Other variables were in place then that are not part of the equation now (namely a 32V alternator from one of the engines and a generator running - and perhaps an operator that didn't know how to manage the systems). Now it's just the charger and 4 batteries. I just confirmed that 2 of the 4 batteries are at 7.65V and the other two are at 8.55. The charger is putting out 38V at stand (not connected) and 37.75 when connected to all four batteries. So, either I'm just nervous and all will be OK - or two of my deep cycle 8V batteries are bad. My hyrdrometer confirms that specific gravity of the low voltage batteries is deficient...and specific gravity of the 8.55 batteries is good. I disconnected everything today, cleaned the cables, etc. and reconnected all. I'll run the charger all day tomorrow while on board and see if things stabilize. Thanks for the help.
  7. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    DVM's and Chocolate Tea Pots have a lot in common when it comes to DC Voltages.
  8. d_meister

    d_meister Senior Member

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    Are there Battery Isolators in the system? They can effectively keep the charger from "seeing" the finished voltage, causing them to continue charging.
    isolator.jpg
  9. Ed Tillett

    Ed Tillett New Member

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    No isolators. Still working out the problems. Two batteries are still low voltage - two are OK. Starting over tomorrow. Thanks.
  10. Bahma

    Bahma Member

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    Dyring your test run tiday, would it be possible to take the fully you charged batteries out of the circuit? I'm afraid you will cook them if you continue to overcharge them.
    I assume you are just running the the charger and not the ships engines.
    Let's face it, you are proving much by destroying your batteries, and bad batteryou or cell will cause damage by overcharging good batteries.
  11. Bahma

    Bahma Member

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    I am still concerned that you may permanently damage your batteries, particularly the two that appear fully charged.
    When you do your checks tomorrow, could you take those two out of the circuit....I cannot see the point of over charging them further.

    If you do not have one, i would get a hydrometer, to check the specific gravity of the acid. This is the only reliable way to check a batteries state of charge, usually they come with details relating the SG to their temperature, thus a thermometer is useful too.

    I would not trust your older charger, even if it has been repaired, as I mentioned modern chargers are more efficient and their computerized charging sequence is less harmful.
  12. Bahma

    Bahma Member

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    PS....I would not run the main engine(s) with the new alternator or the Genny at the same time. Just confuses the issue.

    Run one at a time to eliminate the culprit.

    Best of luck, batteries are too expensive to right off so fast.
  13. Ed Tillett

    Ed Tillett New Member

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    Here it is August. Boat was launched in May with the repaired Newmar 32V charger/inverter. ($800) New batteries installed (four 8v). Got everything connected and stabilized. All worked well for 4 months. However, I could never figure out how the inverter distributed power at the main electrical panel. We spent hours with a multimeter trying to "ring" it out. This is an old boat that has about 35 years of one owner doing whatever he and his repair / maintainers thought proper. Mislabeled breakers everywhere, wires to dead-ends, 12, 24, 32, 120 and 240V all on board feeding various instruments, fixtures, outlets and appliances. I was cautious - BUT - last week while plugged in to 50A the cable at the boat came loose (operator error on the part of crew - I should have checked) and the surge apparently fried the charger side of the Newmar. Then, while testing the Newmar to confirm, I put it in Inverter mode, got a light that confirmed it was operable and attempted to feed the panel again. During that process, and while redirecting the main feed with the master switch, which I believe malfunctioned, the Newmar starting buzzing, smoking and sizzling! I shut off all power at the post and pulled the plug. It was fried, again. I either back fed the Newmar, or something - but I would have thought the unit would have a breaker or fail safe. But, it didn't. So, here's the question. Should I just convert 32V now to 24V? Forget inverting? (I have a generator and will spend most of my time at docks for the coming 3-5 years). Or should I include the inverting option while rewiring? That is, will wiring for inverting be easier to do now than later? And, finally, can anyone direct me to a good independent electrician in eastern Virginia between Reedville and Hampton? Thanks.
  14. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    It looks to me like you're just costing yourself more and more problems and expense. I would suggest a good marine electrician as the next step. I wouldn't qualify it to "independent" as I'd simply want the best I could find. As part of that you could get an estimate on the cost of converting to 24V as well as his recommendations.
  15. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Converting to 24Vdc will not fix your inverter problem.

    You have a more scary problem;
    You have a wire problem that is not safe.
    You are not sure where or what it is.
    Most fires on a boat start from an electrical issue.

    Is the security and safety of your friends and family more important than getting a proper electrician in there to ensure everybody is vertical the next morning???
  16. Bahma

    Bahma Member

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    You have a similar problem as myself, a 35 year old boat with masses of redundant wiring......l, i am presently pulling the redundant stuff out...there are miles of wire,..... hundreds of wire ties and other junk.

    To be frank, it would cost a fortune to have her professionally rewired.

    Nevertheless, in your case I would be very worried about cooking your new batteries.

    Your old charger is defective, the fact it has now burned itself up proves it.

    My old Huckins had 5 8 VDC batteries giving a total voltaget of 30VDC it worked quite well, but I changed it to 6 6VDC which provided 36 volts I thought it worked better.

    If you are considering changing to 24 VDC, now is the time to do it.....buy a quality 24 VDC charger which will charge the same number of banks you have......wire it direct to the batteries and use a separate 110 vac cable to drive the charger. In other words you are not using any of the boats old wiring.

    It should work......at this stage I would not wire the batteries to the engines alternators......if your generator is running your batteries will be charged.

    My Huckins came with no alternators, I ran her without problem for some 20 years using the battery charger and generator only.

    The KISS technology is often better......Keep It Simple Stupid......

    At least this will get you on the water......you can look at revamping your wiring during the winter.

    Best of luck.......drop me an email.....and we can compare notes.
  17. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I've had to send several Newmar battery chargers back to Newmar for cooking batteries. One 6 months old, but usually when Newmars go bad, they go into full charge mode and stay there from what I've seen.
  18. Ed Tillett

    Ed Tillett New Member

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    Pretty obvious. I've got that figured out. I asked if anyone KNEW an electrician. Thanks.
  19. Pascal

    Pascal Senior Member

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    You d be amazed at what some professional do... A few backs I helped a guy I knew brought his 90s vintage Viking 70ish to the abacos. He just an jnveryer installed by an electrician working at a reputable yard. It was a disaster waiting to happen with undersized wiring, no safety against backfeeding and more. Including installing it on a shelf almost resting on top of the generator! Nice and warm.