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Pods make you more or less likely to buy

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by olderboater, Dec 8, 2015.

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  1. olderboater, Dec 8, 2015
    #1
    olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    There are many boats recently introduced with Pods as the only drive option. Examples are: Horizon E56XO, Sunseeker San Remo 52', Several Sabre Models, Sea Ray L 590.
    Toss in the Delta 54 IPS which is an absolutely brilliant design. We'll see if he's paying attention, but seriously it is.

    Then on the Used Market there are some built both with conventional or pod drive but only used ones available in the US are pods. Sunseeker Manhattan 63's are my example there.

    40-60' is clearly where pods are getting in the most boats. So, my question is does the fact a boat comes only with pods make you more likely to buy that boat or less likely? This really isn't aimed at any specific boat but just the concept in general.
  2. Capt J, Dec 8, 2015
    #2
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    From owners I work for it is definately less likely to buy for about half of them. BTW there is a 63' Manhattan on the market with traditional drives right now. A few owners are searching for PODS (maybe 20%, new owners make a big jump up). And the rest could take it or leave it I think.
  3. HaveADay, Dec 8, 2015
    #3
    HaveADay

    HaveADay Member

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    For me as a buyer it was definitely less likely to buy if the boat had pods. I'm not concerned by the increased / easier maneuverability, but the increased maintenance expenses and complexity do cause me some concern. I'm probably most concerned about the availability of qualified service while travelling.

    Ben
  4. AMG, Dec 9, 2015
    #4
    AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    Thank you, yes this boat is designed for Pods and you can have two or three IPS/600. Almost all are delivered with triple engines and thanks to our 100 % Carbon construction the boats are still just using about half the fuel compared with a traditional boat the same size. Same thing with the Delta 80 with triple IPS/1200, higher top (38 knots) and cruising speeds, half the fuel burn and twice the range makes all the difference for our customers. Of course the joystick handling and extremely low noise levels are nice too. One of the 80-footers have already run about 900 hours over two summer seasons, that is a lot when they are usually cruising at 30 knots...!
  5. ranger58sb, Dec 9, 2015
    #5
    ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    I would be more likely to buy with pods, assuming the rest of the boat fits, assuming no more than 2 engine/pods, and I'm thinking it would be in the range of 55-60'.

    Few of those you mentioned would ring my chimes, though. The Sabre might...

    And yet again, I've forgotten to get that winning lottery ticket to pay for it...

    -Chris
  6. sgawiser, Dec 9, 2015
    #6
    sgawiser

    sgawiser New Member

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    This is our first boat with pods and I will never have one without them. The difference in docking alone is impressive let alone the better fuel efficiency and performance.

    It seems to me that the best boats for pod installation are those that are designed for the pods. They provide the designer with a lot of flexibility and additional space than conventional shafts do.

    Of course, for our next boat we are only looking at the mid 40's so I can't really comment on larger vessels. But in that size range, most potential purchaser we talk with wants pods. Not a scientific sample at all though.
  7. olderboater, Dec 9, 2015
    #7
    olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Given the choice I would not choose the pods. In the process of ordering a boat that comes both ways and chose conventional. I would not choose pods on older boats simply because I think the dependability wasn't what it is today. Cruising grounds would also play a role.

    Now the exception. A boat like the Delta 54 IPS, I would break all my rules on pods and triples and not only choose pods but go triple. It's a boat that breaks all the rules in every way, but it's also one I know that was planned and designed and tested for pods. I would say, as well, that their location put them in position to work very closely all the way with Volvo. It's a techie type boat, for the person wanting every unique feature one could think of.

    If I was considering a Sabre, I'd be ok with pods. They have a lot of experience and a lot of very happy pod customers.

    I would not select the Horizon with pods nor any of the Sunseekers. With Sunseeker, I like their performance with conventional drives and don't see the point in taking a chance. The Sea Ray L 590 I would not select simply because of it's pods. I'd go to the conventional on the L 650. So, in my case I would never select because of the pods. There are a few boats with pods I would select. And there are others I would not select because of the pods.
  8. amgscrap, Dec 9, 2015
    #8
    amgscrap

    amgscrap Member

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    I have had three boats with pods and because of its responsive joystick capabilities it makes me look like a seasoned Captain. All have been IPS starting with the 600's, then 900's and currently 1200's. Have had no issues with any of them. They are a pleasure to handle, quiet, and very fuel efficient (for a boat). The only caution I would make it to buy a boat that was solely designed to be for IPS drives. Many are offered with either IPS or conventional drives. I had a Sunseeker 52 that was so offered. It had as a result a jack shaft. The boat not only did not gain the extra room an IPS provides for interior space but took away room from the crew quarters. I have looked at boats with triple or Quad IPS drives buy stayed away from them. I don't want an extra motor to repair or service.
  9. Opcn, Dec 9, 2015
    #9
    Opcn

    Opcn Senior Member

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    I'd say the answer to your question is in the quoted statement. This is a trend that has been progressing for a while, IPS was introduced a decade ago, and the fact that it's on more and more boats would suggest that it's something buyers are responding too. The industry feedback loop isn't instantaneous, but if boatyards had a bunch of unsold poddrive boats sitting around they would eventually stop producing them. Pods probably wont take over completely, but they are becoming more widely accepted, and with the technology approaching maturity that is a trend that is unlikely to reverse.
  10. olderboater, Dec 9, 2015
    #10
    olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I'm still anxious to hear from this group. Many of the pods sold have been to relatively unsophisticated buyers who are told all the attributes and don't even know any negatives. New buyers instantly fall in love with the joystick and with skyhook or Volvo DPS. Many of them don't know that you can have a joystick on any boat. When you're new and scared of docking, pods sound pretty wonderful. For someone who has never docked twin engines, they may make the difference in that person moving into a boat that size.

    Here the feedback is from those with much experience and many who are professionals. I would expect it to be very mixed. Those I'm aware of who have refused pods have been those who have owned boats in the size range for years.

    Yes, we're seeing more pods, but it had not taken over the market as originally projected.

    I think one other factor enters in with those who are captains, engineers or owners who do much of their own work. They feel comfortable and are knowledgeable on conventional systems and don't have that experience with pods.

    I would love to know on boats offered both ways by builders like Sunseeker, how their sales split out and how Europe vs the US.
  11. gr8trn, Dec 9, 2015
    #11
    gr8trn

    gr8trn Senior Member

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    Pods exist for many reasons in my mind:
    1. Because they can
    2. Major installation space savings to maximize livable space
    3. Noise reduction
    4. Ease of close quarters maneuvering
    5. Impoved fule economy
    6. Underwater exhaust discharge when under way
    7. They stimulated the market
    8. Assists short handed crew
    9. Assists inexperienced skippers
    10. Create another level of service required

    I am sure there are more...

    I came from sailboats with neat prop walk and I chose my vessel based on desired use. Having Zeus Pods made the decision to go to a larger, 50', motor vessel an easier one for me.

    I would go Pods of both shaft and Pods were offered. Although I would wonder about any hull that is available with both. I didn't think that was how pods worked. My hull was an approved design by CumminsMarineDiesel, as I understand at the time was the Zeus partner.

    I guess I would be skeptical to purchase a hull that had the option of both and I would choose a pod boat again for sure.

    Although I am new to twin engine maneuvering, I do use the throttles as much as possible as I leave and enter marinas, fuel docks and such. I love the pods but I also like to be able to learn as much as I can and enjoy driving with the throttles and gears.
  12. Gratton, Dec 9, 2015
    #12
    Gratton

    Gratton Member

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    Pods are also sold (with no conventional drive option) on this new type of semi-displacement "trawlers" such as the Cranchi Eco Trawler, Absolute Navetta or Beneteau's Swift Trawlers. In that category, it seems only the Absolute Magellano line has kept the conventional drives, even for their new 66'.

    I understand they are not built to cross oceans anyways, but I guess they still attract a type of customer who intends to live aboard and explore a bit more than the customer who would buy a typical production go-fast planing yacht. So if I would be on the market for a semi displacement trawler, alone the required haul out every 250 hrs for maintenance would steer me away from choosing one of those.
  13. olderboater, Dec 9, 2015
    #13
    olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I believe the 50 is the only Swift Trawler using pods.
  14. Capt Ralph, Dec 9, 2015
    #14
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    We managed a few Zeus and ISP boats.
    Our diver hates them all.
    Zinc service is 3 to 5 times the normal cost vs straight inboards. Not just the drives, the whole ship and drives.
    Almost half of our fleet are dock queens. 2 of them are Zeus. Our diver hates these 2 the most.
    Mercathode sux.
    Performance wise, there fun. I drive them to the dock like straights. Never been on a tub with 3 or 4 pods.
    Old dawg here, new tricks are for prom queen$.

    Facing forward or aft does not matter, in South Georgia, they get clobbered the same. Don't care what anybody says, they both pick crab pots also (or the owners do). That's when I have to get in my self (diving pays more than turning wrenches, per job).
  15. ranger58sb, Dec 10, 2015
    #15
    ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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    When I say I'd chose pods, these are the major reasons. Maneuverability is only a nice plus, but that can be solved other ways... so that's wouldn't be a main driver, for me.



    Might be on to something, there.

    -Chris
  16. amgscrap, Dec 10, 2015
    #16
    amgscrap

    amgscrap Member

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    Just curious, why install three 600 IPS engines when you can install two 900 IPS units. Should be lighter, take us less room in engine room, be more fuel efficient and have one less engine to service. Quite sure you thought about it and have great reasons
  17. AMG, Dec 10, 2015
    #17
    AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    If I recall right, the twin 900 were heavier, took more space and were less efficient, we found no real advantage over the triple 600...
  18. Capt J, Dec 10, 2015
    #18
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I would highly recommend offering a twin 900 option. I knot a lot of owners that would walk away because they don't want to maintain 3 motors and 3 drives, but would want higher speed than the 2 600's.
  19. AMG, Dec 10, 2015
    #19
    AMG

    AMG YF Moderator

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    So what is the cost advantage in maintaining two IPS/900 over three IPS/600..?
  20. Capt J, Dec 10, 2015
    #20
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    I really do not know, but probably 25-30% more. More zincs, fuel filters, oil filters, oil, drive oil, impellor, etc. etc. But also you have more chances of something going wrong with 3 motors/drives instead of 2. Most people would rather have twins. Simpler engine room as well.

    I have an owner right now, who is searching hard for his next yacht. Doesn't like pods to begin with, why, we take 3 trips a year of about 500-700nm's, and the rest of the time a 5 mile jaunt to and from a marina where they use it as a condo. He always has me run it, so the manueverability means nothing to him. He had a 62' Predator, he ruled out a 63' Manhattan because of the PODS, and it was too small. He looked at a Lazzara 75' LSX and they fell in love with the boat inside and out, they were ready to make an offer on the boat even given the fact it had IPS, until he found out it had 4 engines/drives and it was game over, at any price.
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