Sea Ray L 650 Fly

I'll preface this by saying I am a Sea Ray fan. The first three boats I owned were Sea Ray, a 17' bowrider, a 22' Pachanga and a 24' bowrider. Also, the opportunity I had today to go out and see what I thought about the L 650 Fly was arranged by a long time friend who owns some Sea Ray dealerships. However, I have no financial relationship with Sea Ray or any of their dealers.

If I hadn't liked the L 650 Fly, I'd be posting nothing. Sea Ray has talked about "yachts" before but the L series appears to be a serious effort. This is a market segment that I think is terribly short of builders. I think Sunseeker Manhattans are nice, Riva has no flybridge models in that range, Princess, Marlow, Grand Banks have offerings as do some trawler builders. Hatteras has a 60' and 70'. Marquis has a 660 you'd consider the competition to this boat. The ride of this boat I'd put a lot closer to Sunseeker and Riva than I would to Princess or Marquis which I consider lesser rides.

It seems to me they really researched and listened, rather than just taking a Sundancer and tossing a bridge on top as I perceived the old 68' Sun Sports they had a decade or more ago. While I think most of the optional equipment is absolutely necessary for long range coastal cruising (standard perhaps more than adequate for rivers), the boat can be very well equipped. Four staterooms and optional crew cabin. Some might not like the space sacrificed in the salon for the galley and dining, but with a bridge plus cockpit and bow seating that seemed ok to us. The only other design in this range that has really gotten my attention recently is Neptunus and I've never been out on one.

I worry whether people will buy Neptunus or Sea Ray. Many think of them as lesser. Neptunus because of volume and location in Canada, Sea Ray because they're a volume production builder. Some people consider Sea Ray to be a step below. In this range, I think they're in the upper group of sport boats with bridges. Definitely not for a trawler person who wants slow and economical, perhaps not for the performance oriented who wants a Pershing that will do 40+ knots. But perhaps for a person who wants to cruise comfortably at 20 to 23 knots but wants the space of a trawler. I think if one refuses to consider a Neptunus or a Sea Ray simply because of the name on the side, they're making a mistake.

One interesting point. The L590 Fly is powered by three 600 hp Cummins engines with Zeus drives. The 650 by two 1150 hp CAT C18's. The two boats have very similar performance from the numbers I've seen. But Sea Ray just doesn't have a pod option for the 650 and I think they're fighting an uphill battle on the 590 with triples. Volvo IPS would be able to perhaps power this boat with twins but definitely with triples. So Sea Ray's parent company works against them using pods on a boat this size. I'm not sure if having different propulsion systems on the two boats makes them look smart and innovative or makes them look confused and confusing. I picture a salesman pushing a 590 and praising pods and all their advantages over straight inboards and the customer decides they want a larger boat and how he has to explain why everything he said no longer holds true. The 650 does use about 20-25% more fuel than the 590. With basically the same size fuel tank that's a big advantage. The range of the 650 with the standard tank is only 235-240 nm. Even with the optional fuel it's only around 265 nm. Now at hull speed it has many times that.

When I look at Sea Ray Sundancers I see them as a nice day on the lake type boat. Maybe a weekend. I see the L series as very comfortable for major cruising.

I just found this boat interesting as a large production builder entering this range and type of boat.

Negatives:

-Range is important to me and it's range is definitely less than I'd like to see.
-CATS are noisy. Well they do offer MAN's. I think one would stick to CAT.
-I figured out the standard equipment list is for lakes and rivers. One must select a lot of options. Now the boat we were on had most.
-All electronics are Raymarine.
-Generators are Onan
-Only Queen bed in Master
-Galley only has under counter refrigerator and freezer although decent size. I would probably forego crew cabin and put more cold storage in the Lazerette. Also do have options for the cockpit and flybridge.
-Only place for tender is swim platform.
-Ugly floors in VIP head.

Positives (talking about the boat with all the options)

-Nice performance.
-Space, space and more space. 4 stateroom and they're nice staterooms. Regular Queen beds in master and VIP. They should have King in master but don't. Now a crew cabin is optional. But it's a tough choice. The standard version has a head in the lazerette area. with the crew bed added obviously the lazerette area would be much smaller. I think the cabin is really designed by someone who wants to take a deck hand with them, not a Captain.
-Gyro Stabilizers, Bow and Stern Thrusters, joysticks, multiple stations.
-Both helms are good to operate from
-Incredible living space, especially outdoors with salon, dining area, nice covered cockpit, an incredible bow seating area for a boat that size, and a nice flybridge.
-First class quality interior. Helm seats stand out as very nice.
-Second auxiliary generator as option.
-Watermaker as option
-Air conditioning 99,000 BTU with upgrade (90,000 standard).
-CE A rating
-Other than Raymarine not being my preference a great group of electronics for operating and for relaxation. Even night vision. And positioning of 50" tv in the corner of the salon makes it very viewable from so many seats.
-Windless systems very nice, including two stern windless's.
-Cleats, handrails, shorepower cable, all well thought out.
-Engine room decent. Better than one might expect. Height of just under 5'.
-As option, hardtop with sunroof plus electric retractable awning.
-Things like oil changing system as options.
-Side helm door.
-Nice looking with teak options.
-Crew quarters available.
-Real stairs with teak from cockpit to bridge. Not some slippery dangerous steps.

It's not my personal first choice. I know many like Onan. I prefer Northern Lights and my second preference for smaller generators is Kohler. Now, some of that might just be because I have more experience with those.

In fairness I would definitely choose Onan over some other generator brands out there, so I'm not saying I think it's awful, just to me it's somewhat middle of the pack.

Now, if I had the same experience with Onan I do with others, I might feel differently, better or worse toward it.

Same thing on Raymarine. Not my first choice. I don't think of them, however, as bad or unacceptable. Again, I've also had more experience with other brands.

None of my negatives on the boat are matters I consider serious or that if I was a potential buyer would chase me away. Nor is there equipment that I'd switch out before trying. The only thing I know we'd change at delivery would be the floor in the VIP head and that's obviously very minor.

I do have one problem with their approach. While I think it's logical to have a low end and a high end build for different purposes, I think it could get very confusing for an inexperienced buyer. They would read of all these great things and perhaps not realize fully, even if told, that they were not coming on their boat. There is a huge difference between the standard offering and typical. In fact at the extreme the MSRP at base is $3.26 and select all the options and you're over $4 million or add another $130,000 if you want the MAN's.

Some of the things not included in their standard package that annoy me most are things like these. Standard fuel tank is 1030 gallons. Option is 1150. The upgrade price is only $3,667. Why in the world isn't the 1150 just made standard? Dishwasher isn't standard. Only $2,500 upgrade. Why not make it standard? Now one item I think should be standard but is costly is the helm door. $32,500. Air conditioning system, standard is 90,000 BTU. Upgrade to 99,000 is $5,750. Why not make 99,000 standard. Now things like Teak as an upgrade make a lot of sense. Those I fully understand. Upgrading to teak throughout is about $87,000. Many people don't want to spend that for teak and quite a few don't want teak regardless of price. There are 77 options. I think that could be greatly simplified and I know they're not manufacturing it with that many variations. Include the minor dollar items as standard and then make the costly ones options.

If I could make one change on the boat, I'd put a garage for the tender and get it off the swim platform. Again though that's simply a personal preference that I don't like tenders on the swim platform.

And why wouldn't you? The Cummins? The Zeus? or both?

I personally prefer straight drives and CAT's. My reason is that the big advantages they argue on Zeus in this type application are all covered in other ways. Joysticks aren't a novelty of pods. I'd feel a lot better if doing the loop or traveling out of the country in finding mechanics for CAT's and straight drives.

It does have a 9.0 KVA auxiliary genset. It's an option, but like you, I can't imagine it without it.

In addition to the Generator issue, their battery approach is worth noting too. They just use four large NiCad batteries.

I don't argue some options. I do argue the small difference in A/C as an option as one example. The teak I do feel should be optional in each respect as it's a buy/don't buy choice plus costly. The helm door, I have a hard time with selling a boat this size without one so think that should be standard. The boat we were on, I believe did have NiCad. I now will double check that. Small footprint AGM's wouldn't detract to me. Have you found your battery setup adequate? MAN 1200's is an option, although I'm not aware of anyone choosing it and the dealer I was talking to had not sold any with it. I think perhaps it's there for the European market where some might prefer MAN.

Guess the reason I couldn't imagine no dishwasher is I can't imagine washing dishes by hand, since I never have not had one. However, with larger groups on a boat, the dishes seldom fit into the dishwasher.

I didn't mention the Concierge service as having not used it, I didn't feel I could comment. Could you elaborate further on that, Sea Gull? I also notice you're in CT. I do believe the service reputation of the Sea Ray dealer there is a bit better than in South Florida from what I've heard on Sea Ray and other boats they sell. So any comments you have on service would be appreciated. Also, how was the boat on delivery? My guess would be very few issues based on history and it's nature as a production boat.

You say dinghy on the platform is not the best. What about it do you not like? Have you had any issues with it? One of my best friends thinks I'm crazy because I don't like it there, although he thinks I'm crazy because I don't want to tow one either. What type dinghy do you have on the platform and what type setup? If we were interested our choice would probably be a Williams Jet 445 with a weight of 957 lbs, length of 14'1" and beam of 6'4", so roughly takes the space of a 13' with outboard since nothing off the back.

You're like us in having drunk the Sea Ray Kool-Aid. However, you've done it on the basis of experience as have we. Frankly, my answer to whether we might buy one before getting on it was a definite "no." Just in that size range they weren't who we thought of buying. Now, they're definitely in the picture. Although we had to venture out a ways to find rough conditions, it handled them much better than we anticipated. It is definitely not a larger version of a Sundancer with a bridge added, but a completely different boat designed and built as a small "yacht." Sounds like your build experience was more yacht like too including factory visits. One difference, efficiency and organization so that hull layup to delivery for you was less than 4 months.

Have you found anything you'd do differently if doing it over? What were you comparing to in making your decision? How do you intend to use yours? Is there anything you would change if doing it over or if it was an option?

When you're moving between locations some meals are by necessity on board. When in a port, we probably cook dinner on board 60-65% of the time.