Tipping Dockside

I guess my issue is more the expectation of tips now, it seems everybody has their hands out expecting a little something extra. Has the tipping culture allowed business owners to shuffle their salary requirements on to the customer? Tipping doesn't seem to be a gesture for a good job any more.
I know in yachting there are boats that charter pretty heavy and the owners take the expectation of tips to the crew when setting the salaries, usually much less than the going rate. I haven't chartered much since my early days in the industry, mostly been running private boats, and I have never had the expectation of a tip from the owners, from time to time I have gotten bonus' and a few times a tip form their guests, always with the bosses approval. I find that when you get the occasional tip from the boss, it then becomes more and more expected, not a position I want my owner to be in.
Yes I have cut back in both amount and quantity of who I tip, but if I need to put down a pile of cash to get into somewhere that I really need to be in, I'll do it, but I won't be happy about it, and most likely won't return unless I'm made to!

Yes, but more than that salaries that haven't kept pace with the cost of living have forced workers to need tips to survive. When I started working the minimum wage was $1.25 an hour or about $50 a week, but i could get a place to live for $50 a month. Since then the minimum wage has risen about 750%, but that same place has gone up almost 3,000% along with everything else. Today's low wage worker has two choices: depend on the generosity of those better off than them or steal (be it from the landlord, the banks, the taxpayers or you).

We chartered boats quite a bit before we bought ours. The charterer always made the expectation of tips clear to us. However, a normal range and really just establishing the minimum expectation. So, our tips did still reflect our pleasure with the service. Had we been greatly displeased we would have tipped that minimum and told the captain why. As it was we were very pleased and wrote a note where we complimented each crew member individually.

There are many different segments of the industry but crew really falls into three groups. Charter, full time and the in between which is freelance crew brought in for the job. This includes yacht managers such as Capt J, semi retired such as Nycap who although he primarily works for one owner, still isn't a full time employee.

There is an established customary method of pay for each of those groups. It's there and may vary by location. I only know it in South Florida. But on charters the crew definitely has expectations of tip which varies based on how well they serve. Full time crew doesn't get tipped. They are treated like other employees. They may get bonuses but that's dependent on the arrangement with their employer. We also do not allow guests to tip as the responsibility of compensation is all ours. Then there's that in between group and the standard practice is in between. They set a rate that they're comfortable with knowing they may or may not get tipped. There's no one who has told the boat owners what is expected. They may run a boat for two weeks for a family that doesn't tip. Often they may know not to expect it based on where the owner is from. They may also have a local client who treats them nicely but doesn't tip. When that client tried to get a lower price, they said no. Then they have a well established long term client who tips quite generously. He has no issue with the non tipper and still fulfills the job to his normal standards. On the other hand he might give price breaks on other management services he provides to the established good tipper that he wouldn't to the non tipper. But there's nothing wrong with that. We all get breaks from businesses we've dealt with loyally for years.

Now these are all still very different from dock hands, from doormen and bellmen at hotels, from parking valets, from wait staff. It's irrelevant at this point how things got how they are regarding pay and tips, they just are that way. There's nothing preventing a restaurant from increasing pay and then saying no tipping allowed, but I've not seen that done. So arguing the system is non-productive as we don't have the power to change it. If you want to run for president with that as a campaign feature then ok. For instant, restaurants could be changed in an instant by eliminating the provision not requiring full minimum salary. On the other hand that would be a significant culture change and probably penalize the best wait staff vs the poorest.

There is one segment of business that has changed over the years. At one time bag boys in grocery stores who then helped you to your car if needed expected tips. Grocers changed that and most today prohibit tips while the others don't encourage it.

So, now back to the original question of launch and I think extended to marina staff in general from dock hands to fuel persons to those providing other services. I tend to group these in with hotel staff. These are all low paid service personnel. The vast majority work very hard to make things more pleasant for you. The tips to them aren't like charter yachts where you tip hundreds and thousands. They're small amounts compared to your expenditures. I pay a marina $2000 for three days and buy $24000 worth of fuel. If I tipped constantly throughout my stay and then a bonus at the end and it added up to $1,300 that's only 5%. If I keep my boat at a marina, and pay $800 per month, then paying $5 for each launch each way is still so little. If I feel the marina is too expensive, then I should talk to the owner about lowering the slip cost or mooring cost, but I'm not going to file my protest by lessening my tipping of launch drivers or dock hands.

Now if I'm like ychtcptn or Mr. No Vowels, and my custom with that marina and staff is different and well known that is fine. They trust. They know they'll be rewarded at the end. They know they have been in the past. The only place I would suggest rethinking is if the reward has been shrinking while the spending power and economic situation of the staff and those at the bottom end of the wage scale has too. But it may still be quite generous, I don't know.

I would say this, the marinas we frequent most do have many non tippers and they're fully served. Even the rude owners and captains are. If we can counteract a bit of that, especially the rudeness, then we're very glad to do so.

Now, do I tip for bad service? Depends. I try to figure out the reason. If it's someone new and the restaurant hasn't trained them then my issue is with the manager. If they're understaffed, the same. If the food is lousy, the same. In those cases I address my problem to the manager but still tip the wait person and in those situations where the wait person got the manager for me and the manager comped part or all the bill, I still tipped the wait person. They did their job including getting the manager.

A while ago we were at one of our favorite marinas and a deck hand we knew well and liked was in a lousy mood. I pulled him aside. He had been up all night as his younger sister was rushed to the hospital. Turned out an emergency appendectomy and he was worried still and upset he wasn't there with her. I told him that he needed to choose. Either he shouldn't be there today or he had to treat it like acting and a stage and turn on the act. He said he'd never missed work. I said maybe today is the day to go speak to your boss and miss. Handed him some money and said "buy your sister something special." And, yes, my wife has asked waitresses we didn't know at all before "what was wrong."

If the underlying problem one has is with the concept of service jobs being dependent on tips, shorting the one serving you just doesn't address the issue and penalizes the wrong person.

Just one person's view. And this still isn't in any way meant to flame anyone as people have different views and I quite suspect that ychtcptn still treats people very respectfully and tips reasonably in his own way.

I would flame those I've encountered in other places who hate the system and choose to then penalize the hard worker on the low end of the wage scale.

Well spoken Mr. Olderboater, hat off to you...

I don't know how many of you have ever truly depended on tips and the generosity of those you served. I have, starting at 16 years old and on my own. I treasured every one, whether it was a quarter or a hundred. So while tipping to my hubby is a bit more thought out, mine is very emotionally generated. I'm able so I pay back or I guess it's paying forward. If you're not familiar with the concept of paying forward. It's an old concept like BC old. But for all those who helped me when I most needed it, I'll tip like crazy today and smile all the way, not really caring what others think or how it's upsetting the world structure or anything else. I freaking enjoy doing it. Call me selfish, but I'll keep on tipping any chance I get.

Capt J, my question to you was, "If you do charge what you're worth, why would you accept more than you're worth?" None of your above remarks addresses my question to you. What I wanted to get at without second guessing your answer is that once the tip is offered, you have the appreciation that you claim is all you're looking for; remember you said you have already charged what you are worth. So, now that you know the owner appreciates what you did for him/her, you could refuse the tip, or ask him to donate it to your favorite charity, or have him give it to the wait staff at your favorite restaurant in the area, etc. I just don't buy that you want the tip because you want to know that your work is appreciated. You just like more money, and I find nothing wrong with that.

As for your cheap shot in the last sentence of the above post, no one gets tips in the type of work I did. I worked as a management analyst for contractors that provide services to Department of Defense weapon system acquisition program offices. From top to bottom, no tips. I owe you one, Capt J.

Tips. Perks. If you're good at what you do someone buys you a nice dinner. although you walk a very sharp line when you work with the DoD. I also suspect that job pays more than the average day captain, dock hand or launch operator earns.

There's a range in what we're worth on any given day. I'll do days where I cruise for a couple hours and that's it. Then there are days I work for 10 or 15 hours and keep people alive. I get the same day rate for both. As for refusing money, come on now. We do have bills to pay. However, I do happen to be in an interesting salary situation where I try to charge less and the boss tries to pay more. lol. It's nice to be appreciated.

I was always in a salaried position.

I was always paid reasonably.

I always received bonuses.

I never attempted to refuse or return them.

Whether any or all of them went to charitable causes was always under my control.

I also could have left my employer at any time for a higher paying job as they were regularly offered but my employer was loyal, I was loyal and I felt appreciated and more than adequately compensated.

Those who choose to tip Capt J do so because they feel he goes above and beyond the ordinary job requirements and performs at an exceptional level. What he then chooses to do with that tip is his business. He gets the tips out of appreciation. I'm sure like most he likes more money. Even the most charitable do because that allows them to give more.

I'm sure at some point in your career you received a bonus, Leeky? Did you refuse it? If you choose not to tip then that's your prerogative. If you tip but resent feeling obliged to do so, then I don't think anyone here created the system. Many here may oppose it. But it is the system and fighting it penalizes many who can afford it the least. Personally, I think it has significant merit for service jobs to have a basic portion of income as fixed and an additional portion incentive pay based on customer satisfaction. My objection to today's system is that many of the persons depending on tips aren't compensated at a decent living wage.

When I used charter or private captains like Capt J or Nycap on boats I chartered (and chosen by the owner), I did tip the crew (captain included). I was pleased with the service. Given that is the standard and accepted practice in this country, to have done otherwise would have been insulting in my mind.

Now, none of this has anything to do with the original question where we were talking of service people at very minimum wage levels. I tip all dock hands and never once have felt imposed upon by having to do so. It brings me great pleasure to do so.

Never received tips as a flyer, but once it was close:
I was in charge of a military charter flight to some war zone in ex Jugslavia back in the 90s.
Dark and stormy night, the weather kept deteriorating and I was in touch with the Officers on the upper deck who did not seem happy about the crappy weather.
We went into a holding pattern to wait it out for a little while, got more weather reports and I decided to drop into a U.S. Airbase in Italy and call it a day. (Fuel was getting low as the weather was getting worse, not a good combo)
After we landed and set the parking brake, the Commanding Officer handed me a Safety Medal from his battalion and shook my hand.
Kind of a nice touch.
(The Coomanding Officer of the sleepy base in Italy did not seem too happy about this airplane dropping in out of nowhere as he had to scramble to find housing and food for hundreds of troops )

As a young guy I drove taxi cabs to save money for flight school. Got tips then, especially Christmas Eve, Newyears Eve and othe big days. Folks appreciated
we were out there working while they were celebrating.
Got tips on a daily basis also, but not as much, the tipping culture in Europe is less than in the U.S. (The Norwegian IRS taxed us on tip they estimated we were getting)
Nowadays I always tip cabbies good because I have been there, done that..

Tips are fully taxable in the US as well. In certain jobs like wait staff there is an assumption of a minimum amount as well, but in all positions that normally do get tips, any audit will uncover the failure to report and subject the person to a fraud audit.

Must be a different DoD. Health benefits, paid vacation days, sick leave, pension... sure, but that's just part of the overall compensation package. Not "tips." And the overall package was averaging about 35% below comparable civilian job rates, last time I checked (not recently).

My last 10 years or so there were averaging 14-16 hours days, no extra monetary comp, and "free trips" meant I had to fly "cattle car" class -- usually on weekends, usually long and crowded flights -- to some place I didn't want to be and work 4-8 straight days (while still trying to manage resourses back home), with stays in hotels I wouldn't want to be in, eating whatever food we could find (at usually more expensive costs than I'd choose), in company of people I might not usually choose to associate with. And no, "per diem" never covered the total. The idea of these "free trips" being "perks" isn't on the same planet with my experience. Yuck.

-Chris

While a totally separate topic and way off this one, I'd agree wholeheartedly that is a lousy way to live and that's the way many feel they must. A lot of people working outrageous hours and getting no respect or appreciation for what they do. That's wrong.

Didn't mean to exacerbate thread drift; just meant to counterpoint what I perceived as a broad brush condemnation. Individual anecdotes would, of course, be all over the map... especially because many of the "free trips" some of our folks do are to war zones.

To return to our regularly scheduled thread:

I tip.

-Chris

Capt J, I find it very difficult to discuss this subject with you. How do you go from this:

to this:

Let me say to everyone: I believe in tipping by anyone for any reason and for any amount.

This would be a very accurate assessment of my tenure as well.

Carl, Ranger...

That's like earning miles was to me. I use to fly quite a few miles during a year. The last thing I wanted to do more of was to fly somewhere. On top of that even if I wanted to go somewhere it was always a place the airlines I had the miles with didn't fly. Of course then blackouts during the periods you had off and could go somewhere, all holidays.

(I didn't get to say all that I wanted to say in my last post because I had to get off the "air" because of a pop-up thunderstorm.)

Thanks ranger42c for your post about life at DoD and you, too, Carl for confirming it. I would have posted something similar, but I suspect Capt J and some others might have questioned its validity.

Now to close a few loose ends from my point of view. I've never received a bonus as a management analyst, and that covers a period of almost 25 years and 7 different companies. Competition between contractors in the Washington, DC area was fierce, so margins were really slim, i.e, no room for bonuses. However, I did receive pay raises at least annually, and I would have gladly accepted a bonus had one been given. Prior to that, I was a U.S. Navy submarine sonar technician, and I never received any tips or bonuses in that capacity either as that was not an option.

The decision to refuse or accept a tip has nothing to do with wanting to feel appreciated. Once the tip has been offered the want/need/desire to be appreciated is satisfied because the tip has been offered. Refusing or accepting the tip is a decision-making process; wanting to be appreciated is not a decision-making process -- it's emotional. That was why I asked Capt J why he accepts the tips. He wouldn't answer the question, so in post #47 I concluded: "You just like more money, and I find nothing wrong with that."

For some reason there seems to be this notion that I'm against tips and even that I don't tip or resent tipping if I do it. I've checked my posts in this thread, and that requires some wild inference to come to any of those conclusions. That could have been resolved quickly by simply asking how I feel about tipping. I'll repeat what I said in post #56: "I believe in tipping by anyone for any reason and for any amount."