A yacht owner's 24 month new boat experience - Azimut

This video has already been posted to YF. I'll let this thread stand, but if you use it for anything more than raising awareness of Azimut build quality - of lack thereof - your membership will be removed, again. The Azimut forums are already awash with information for potential buyers of these boats. If they fail their due diligence, it's not our fault. YF is at or near the top of these Google results...

Azimut Yacht Problems...
https://www.google.com/webhp?tab=ww&ei=s8TYVJWeBrSMsQSSsICoCA&ved=0CAMQ1S4#q=azimut yacht problems

Azimut Yacht Quality...
https://www.google.com/webhp?tab=ww&ei=s8TYVJWeBrSMsQSSsICoCA&ved=0CAMQ1S4#q=azimut yacht quality

Azimut Yacht Reviews...
https://www.google.com/search?q=azimut yachts problems&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#q=azimut yachts reviews

And hopefully you learned to read forum rules before posting. I don't know any forums that allow cross posting like that, but perhaps some do.

That said, seldom do we get such detailed chronologies. In fact, generally to get that much detail one has to go to the court filings.

I'm sure Azimut and Marinemax would dispute much of what you say. That's why as a boat buyer I look at what multiple people say and for the preponderance of evidence. Let's just say I own several boats and have owned others. None are Azimut. None were purchased from MarineMax. Perhaps just coincidence or perhaps there's a reason I never even looked.

Hi there,

Welcome Boat Owner, and thanks for your input.

My take on this, I think keeping the post open is healthy for the public good, whether there has been previous attempts of something else or not that is an administrative issue in my view and will always be.

Being one the "many" happy owners of Azimut and Benetti products, I can say that I personally did not face any thing that I didn't face with other makes, (I am a boat and car junky that can't have enough boats!). I have also been a witness of the delivery of 5 brand new Azimuts to my friends, 3 of which I handled the transportation, and with my boating experience, a survey is a must, new or not, famous brand or hand built boat.

What I can tell is that the support and representation of Azimut in the US is, lets say, is third rate, since bad mouthing is not in fashion here Also, apparently, the hulls out of the Brazil factory seem to be less monitored for quality, lots of structural things I have seen in the video dropped my jaw, because, I have multiple Azimuts, 60-120', and I did not experience any of those issues, except (Not structural but..) except for two teak deck planks that had cracks in them, that could have been avoided for sure, the remedy took 45 days, in Europe and the boat was still under warranty (extended). One thing I don't like about the finish quality is the deck seats pads and sun pads, the only boat I got with good pads, they have been kept in store! I think there are better material to be used and the pads can use some thickness. My 2 cents.

What I feel is that the dealers and support centers in the US are not serious about the product, hearing and seeing the experience documented in the video is one of many evidences to this, and, Azimut is not treating the US market seriously, even though I don't know if anyone complained to the factory directly. As for MarineMax, I think they care about Searay more than other brands, maybe it generates more sales and profits.

Once I'm back on my feet, hopefully soon!, I think I owe it to everybody to document my personal experience with Azimut and present it here in the same honesty and detail of the video posted above. I'm not a photo or video guy at all, but in this time and age, apparently it is a must, and I do miss many events in my life that I could have documented by a photo or so.

I see this thread "Tweeted" once with reference to Yachtforums and the video "Tweeted" 70+ times by the same user, to me, personally, I would walk away straight ahead! It seems like a programmed campaign, I hope the post here is not related and not aimed into settling a score with either Azimut or MarineMax.

Anyway, lets see how this goes on.

Cheers all,

Alf

There is a fine line between appropriately informing people of one's experience and waging a campaign while using forums as part of that.

As to Alf's first point, I totally agree and we did get new boats surveyed. The dealer of a couple were shocked we were doing that, but so much easier to get issues corrected before taking delivery than after. Amazing what was accomplished in one day with them waiting for payment.

A golden rule for anyone putting his money on the table to buy his next toy, don't forget that once you pay, little you can expect or bargain for!

I helped a friend of mine build a boat ten years back, a 40' sail boat, I was in it to learn the methods and basic techniques, because it is my dream to build a wooden boat one day, once he finished all the work and fitting, he got a surveyor to check the integrity of the build, and it was not his first build but he used to think that one's pride of hand labor could impair good judgement. That is why I said "hand built".

Cheers,

Alf

I believe I missed the original postings, so am glad the differences and misunderstandings between the OP and YF were straightened out. As mentioned earlier, these no shortage of complaints about Azimut's quality control, but this really puts a lot of it into one well produced bundle. I must say that you have incredible patience. I suspect I'd be in jail on some rather serious charges under similar circumstances.

I often recommend buying pre-owned for the cost savings, but mainly because the first owner gets to deal with the new boat bugs. Wow, have you made that case is spades.

I happen to have worked for the predecessor to Marine/Max in NY when they first started to bring in the Azimuts. Along with the long list of defects as you've documented, there was a lot of trouble getting them to pay for warranty work. DK if that's changed, but I seem to recall a couple of weeks ago an outfit of very questionable qualifications representing in the U.S. (http://www.yachtforums.com/index.php?threads/man-with-the-golden-hands.21241/) So nothing about the company makes me optomistic. They are beautiful looking boats though, and these days that's what seems to sell.

The big questions I have for the OP are:
1) Could you estimate what all the visits to the yards for warranty work cost you in fuel, crew, transportation, etc?
2) How much boat time would you estimate you lost during those first 2 years with the boat laid up for these repairs?

I'd be tempted to ask how anyone could run a drain hose uphill and expect it to work, but then I'd be asking 'How can....." about so many of the other issues you pointed out. Does nobody supervise construction?

Why the audio quote from Marine Max CEO about Sea Ray?

While certainly the multi-posting on YF was wrong, the "review" has value in a single thread per site. It is done by an actual owner of a yacht about his own experience from his point of view. Most of the issued are backed up with photography and the response time and actions taken for warranty corrections did not surprise me in the least. Can anyone here say they have not had similar experiences trying to get warranty work done or tracking down leaks, electrical issues, etc? We all know all dealers get backed up, can be slow, misdiagnose, etc etc. So is the issue that he mentioned Marine Max by name? Aside from the emails he posted about the delays in getting to his remaining issues in the 2nd year, Marine Max performed like the majority of other big volume dealers out there. There is nothing new about that.

Or is the issue with the Azimut being the named builder in the video? Clearly the build on that boat was less than stellar. Is it indicative of their entire line? Maybe, maybe knot, I don't know. But others here do.

While it may have been (is) the intention, I did not view the video as being about Marine Max or Azimut rather I think this video is an excellent teaching tool for any buyer, especially a new buyer, for any boat of any size. Places to look for build quality, questions to ask, warranty processes and times, and jurisdiction of any warranty claims. And how to not take advantage of a rub strake off a bow cleat.

Truth has no agenda, it just is.

Actually I can say that. But that only supports the points of choosing builder and dealer, if one is involved, very carefully and getting a survey even on a new boat. A lot of time people just look at the boat, love the style or the space. Perhaps it's my background, but I do evaluate who is behind it very carefully. There were boats with designs that we loved, but weren't about to purchase from the builder (Not Azimut I'm referring to). I'm not going to spend millions with someone I don't trust and I am going to very carefully evaluate someone before I spend millions with them. Regularly we see very good and experienced businessmen getting stuck because the order a boat from someone they'd never do business with in their business, but they put their brains on hiatus and let their hearts rule. Look at those who have ended up owning boat builders simply because it was the only way to get their boat finished.

There are quality builders out there. A lot of good boats. In fact, I believe the vast majority of builders build good boats, but then among those good boats there are some that do a lousy job of quality assurance. We fall in love with boats and our judgement just becomes very poor.

I am a boat buyer, from 26 to 50 feet, four new one lightly used.
I am not a manufacturer nor dealer.
The concise specific tour of this buyers experience is full of real problems.
Not that I feel for builders or dealers, I just felt that there were many opinions about how it should be done in a perfect world.
Bad bottom paint prep at the factory or dealer, then fix it, oh they did.
Gel coat and teal cracks, then fix it, oh they did, oops got some on the teak, disappointing, then tell them.

A Top Movie LLC Production, really, do we need to see self promotion here, hollywood does enough of that for me.

A sub title " potentioal life threatening failures". Sell it with sensation and drama.

Bolts fall out of the little entry gates, then tighten them.

The engine oil leak from Cat is a shame and not handled well at all.

I can understand Yachtforums and AMG being a bit cautious.

Really I am not sayng this buyer is too picky, not at all, but there is a better way to go about dealing with your dissapointment in your purchase. Get a pre-delivery inspection, survey and shake down cruise next time.

No worries there and no need to apologize to a mere mortal like me I think it is about time, EVERYBODY gets really back to the subject.

In spreading the good spirit around, I have to add something...

All Azimuts before 1990 have all the manuals and diagrams they should have, especially electro-mechanical ones. I guess Captain James mentioned that before, but I forgot to mention it in my previous posts, also, if you had one, matching it to reality will keep a kid busy up till post graduate study! You can order a fresh set, but you should wait, it takes time. Or, like I like to do, get someone to help drafting at the same time, make sure everything is labeled and running properly, I seem to like doing this when I have free time.

One question to the OP, the warranty on your electronics and engine was limited to that dealer? You couldn't seek any Cat service center, or Raymarine service center for your shifters and nav problems?

Cheer,

Alf

I don't know what the guy's motives are, he didn't seem to be advertising movies sales or anything. I did find his video to be pretty darn actual of the brand and broker.

That's a good question as it seems many just automatically go to Marine Max. For boat issues they must but everything else has manufacturers' warrantees which can be handled by any service center.

When we moved to South Florida and got into the world of coastal boats, we selected a service center we felt confident in. Fortunately, they are also authorized by our boat builders to provide warranty service. However, most things are equipment anyway. Our boats will probably never see the builder's facility again. Certainly if having problems on Raymarine and Cat, there are other places you could go.

This thread has been stripped of off-topic commentary. Let's all try to stay on topic.

In regards to Azimut warranty, back when Allied was the dealer it worked this way.
Upon arrival in the US, the dealer would do a survey and all the items found at that time were covered by Azimut.
Once that was accomplished, Azimut would transfer a pre agreed upon amount of money to dealer to cover the remaining warranty period.
If the dealer didn't use up all the money, they got to keep it, if they went over, it came out of their pocket.
This made for quite an incentive for the dealer to deny and procrastinate on taking care of the warranty, hence the amount of complaints regarding the warranty and performance of the dealer.

It also got into a mess when the boat was sold and then left that dealers area. Then the selling dealer would have to pay a somewhat rival dealer. Back in that era, Surfside seemed to be the best in support and handling customers issues. But I had a surfside boat down here and then kept getting flip flopped around on warranty issues and dealt with Azimut N. America, the president actually.

They (Azimut N. America) tried to deny legitament warranty items just as much as marinemax, until I flat out told him that Searay's don't have these kind of issues and they take care of them if they did. The insult was enough to instantly change his mind and they took care of the issues. Rolly does excellent work and that is where I would take an Azimut with warranty issues.

Sure is an incentive for the dealer to say "no" and completely contrary to the entire concept of a warranty. If they still do that, sure would be interesting as an owner to get one's hand on those surveys. See all the things pointed out then, probably not fixed.