Your desired time on your boat

You are truly blessed my friend...I hope you remember that next time she asks you to do something that's not convenient for you at that particular time.

Well then let me recommend the Moonen 100' Explorer. Judy did the Review on it (Front page of YF) That's a serious live aboard!

Thanks for the girl advice...as incredible it seems to the gang here at YF I never had or will have a problem finding Women...I currently just don't have time for one. I'm at a place in my life that requires more work time than "me" time, more so than six months ago. I kind of enjoy being a bachelor, at least for the time being. Although last winter it got so cold here, I came this close to buying a Golden Retriever (just to stay warm Ralph....really)

Back to the subject at hand, Jim you need to look at a Real Ships in that length (55-65) they made(make?) a great boat and used a Sea Chest rather than through hulls. They were (are) steel hulled boats and extremely well laid out. If memory serves the Master Stateroom was down a few steps to port, and was more like a suite, King sized bed, a small kitchenette, a loveseat. Really a very nice space.

Speaking of fishing.....would one need to get a licence for every state he went through ?

You know what happens the day you first take it off the dock. It's a lot worse than driving a new car off the lot. Depreciation on a new boat is huge, often 1/3 or more. Then you have what the first owner adds to the boat, everything from electronics to linnens and PFDs that the second owner basically gets for free. Finally there's the new boat bugs. The first owner gets to spend his boating time running the boat back to the dealer for warranty repairs. I was on a Carver for awhile that spent a huge amount of time in the shop. The shop was a 4 hour cruise away. That's 4 hours of fuel or over $400, in each direction, plus my salary, etc. etc., etc., not to mention the time the boat was in the shop eating up the summer cruising season. It was 3 years of misery with that boat, wondering if it would start today (and if it did, would we be able to shut it off without heading for the engine room. I've heard that the next owner loved the boat, because we spent 3 years getting right what Carver and Volvo failed to.
Then consider how much use the average boat gets. A 3 year old boat will very often have less than 300 gentle hours on them, with motors that are good for a 2,000 to 5,000 hour lifespan before rebuild.

And as Nycap argues for used, he also does make mention of the times new might make sense for others, so I'll present our reasoning for new.

First, we'll be the first to admit we just like new. We like being able to order it just as we want. We've never bought a used car or a used boat and don't plan to start now. Just personal preference. So now the reasons that does perhaps make sense for us.

We are a high volume user. When we were buying lake boats we lived on the lake and used them year round. Average year we used 90+ days a year, 400 hours a year. Now that we live on the coast and cruise extensively we put a lot of hours on. 2013 and 2014 we averaged 18,000 nm per year and 1,100 hours.

We maintain well and keep a long time. We've kept our average car 7 years while others average 3. We anticipate keeping our boats at least 10 years.

All the issues of new boats and warranty service others talk about is not an issue we've encountered and this is through the purchase now of 9 new boats. We select manufacturer/builder carefully, dealer or boatyard carefully and we've been very fortunate in doing so. We also do get surveys on new boats and don't take delivery with any known unresolved issues. Upon delivery we immediately make significant shakedown cruises and then immediately get any issues that arise during them fixed. Or that's the plan. In reality we have had virtually nothing arise during our shakedown cruises.

We do acknowledge there is financial advantage in purchasing used. But there is also the time and effort in getting the used boat to the status you want, whether that's refitting electronics, replacing a watermaker, or just getting new upholstery or counter tops because you don't like the colors of the old. Many purchasers of used boats spend months or even years with the boat at the dock or on dry dock before it's the boat they're ready to use. We are the type who would almost inevitable replace electronics either because of a brand preference or to update in the existing brand. So, while what the previous owner added is an advantage if you keep it, it's a disadvantage if you don't.

So we don't argue with Nycap's logic but we do choose to go a different path and are happy with our path. I also think the boat chosen plays a role. He uses a Carver with Volvo as an example. Well, unfortunately, Carver has not shown themselves to consistently deliver a trouble free boat and in many cases neither they nor the local dealer has provided the service necessary to quickly resolve the problems. While three years getting the problems fixed is on the worst side, one year or more is common. This also isn't a criticism of the boat one ends up with eventually. There are many happy owners of Carvers. It's just that their new boat quality assurance hasn't been a strength.

Boatyard used for service and to make any warranty corrections is critical. We don't look for the cheapest or the most convenient even, just the one we know we can depend on.

Then a final factor and that is we do have crew including engineer. They bring a tremendous knowledge and an ability to maintain in excellent shape. We use all manufacturer recommended schedules, parts and fluids. We use OEM parts. And in the purchase of the new boat, we do select equipment we feel has good service and repair history.

So you now have the admission from new boat junkies.

Oh an aside we are low users of autos now. Once were higher. So if you want a 12 year old sports car with 50,000 miles then see us in another 10 years or so.

Absolutely there are pros for buying new. The main one being that you get exactly what you want (at least that's the dream before the warranty repairs start). It also makes sense if you're the type of person to keep a boat for many years, but the average boater will be onto his next boat within 3 years. I remember when my attorney was thinking about moving up from a 38 to a 41 or 50. I recommended the 50 'as you'll be there soon if you're considering it now'. By going to the 50 he'd be avoiding another new boat depreciation and broker's fees, but they explained that they had a "5 year plan", and bought the 41 planning to keep it for 5 years. Within those 5 years they went from the 38 to the 41 to a 50 to a 68, making some brokers very happy.

Now if you're the type that wants new everything, that's fine as long as you understand the cost and that the day after you buy it, it's a used item. However, I learn a lesson from my dad as a kid and it still holds true today. Never by a used car, because you're buying someone else's headache. Cars have a short lifespan and get a lot of use. So people generally don't get rid of them unless they're a problem. But bikes, houses and boat's get so little wear and last so long that it's not worth the markup to buy new. That said though everyone is entitled to buy new if they want and can afford. Just different lifestyles.

P.S. For small boats I do recommend buying new, because they do get a lot of wear and abuse, and their price precludes a huge loss. On a $20,000 boat the most you could ever lose is $20,000, but on a $500.000 you could easily lose $200,000 and that's a lot of green with my wallet.

As to size there are two very divergent schools of thought. One says to buy the smallest you can get by with and the other says to buy the largest you can handle and afford or at least buy your second boat first. I have seen a lot of what you describe. It seems especially to run true with certain brands but to some degree with all. I've noticed Nordhavn purchasers always thinking about moving up and a tremendous percentage of their larger boats are sold to second time buyers. When we were researching we found an unusually high percentage of Westport 112 buyers then moved up to Westport 130's. You see some of that from the 130 to the 164 but not near the same percentage. Center console purchasers and sportfisherman purchasers seem to always be eyeing larger. Meanwhile I see a much larger percentage of trawler purchasers very happy to stay with the size they start with.

As to the cars getting a lot more use than the boats, certainly true with the vast majority of the population. We put about 9,000 miles a year on cars (4800 on three trips to NC per year) and 18,000 on boats. Now converting to engine hours, that's about 180 hours a year on cars vs 1100 hours on boats.

As an aside, we've never built a new house because we've been after location and others had already built in the locations we preferred.

"purchasers always thinking about moving up and a tremendous percentage of their larger boats are sold to second time buyers."

One company really understands the upsell and turn over. When your boat is 2 years old your told 'I can put you into a brand new one 5' bigger and it'll only cost you $10 more a month'. Great sales pitch. Then 2008 came and everybody on their 3rd or 4th turnover found out they were in huge upside-down situations.