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Slow Ideal windlass

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by Danvilletim, Nov 16, 2014.

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  1. Capt J, Nov 19, 2014
    #21
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    On smaller boats, like the OP's 62' Sportfish, Windlasses do not have a brake like they do on large yachts. The Lewmar, Ideal, Maxwell and others do not have a brake like you see on 100' + yachts. You have a drum that has a nut on the top of it (or fitting for a sailboat which handle or nut for a wrench to tighten or loosen for tension on the drum to allow slippage (like a brake but only locking the drum to the windlass) if the anchor gets stuck and allow the chain to slip before breaking the windlass or bow pulpit. You do not loosen this to drop the anchor, if you did the drum and tool used would turn at whatever speed you let tension off at (possibly very fast and break your arm) and you would have no way of slowing it down. You indeed use the windlass motor to let out anchor chain and retrieve it. Think of it like a drag on a fishing reel. The nut on the top in the picture is not to be used to lower the anchor or as a brake in the sense of the windlasses you're used to. The pic below should be the windlass the OP has. As for putting a tool near the windlass that would be very smart to do, but on small boats like we're talking about, the only place to mount it in a yachtie way would be in the anchor locker and it would be a corroded mess in a few months in there.

    http://www.idealwindlass.com/images/new/BHW.JPG
  2. K1W1, Nov 20, 2014
    #22
    K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    I would suggest that instead of writing how you think that Windlass works in the photo you spent some time either using one or seeing one used.

    In that photo the gypsy ( thing that handles the chain) will be driven by the capstan via a clutch or some sort on the simplest it is a cone type connection.

    If you loosen this connection the chain will pay out if the whole thing is not gummed up with crud and has never been maintained.

    Before you bite my head off think of this.

    If I am wrong - How would you haul a line with the capstan while docked with the chain( a feature shown on the Ideal website) still wrapped around the gypsy?

    Also if that is the one being referred to I would say if that motor got swamped anchoring would be way down your list of priorities
  3. Capt J, Nov 20, 2014
    #23
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    You're wrong. There is no clutch to let the chain free fall. The Capstan is generally not used for docking. It is used to anchor rode.....you wrap the rode around the capstan and use the motor to bring it in, then when you get to the chain it falls onto/into the drum. It is VERY common for boats under 80' to have a combination of rode and chain, not all chain. It is also very common for the anchor to have a safety chain/line or holder, so if you wanted to you could pull the chain off of the drum and set it on the deck and then use the Capstain to haul docking lines, but we don't do that in this neck of the woods. You can see the safety holder foward of the windlass in the photo. Here is a photo of a new Lewmar windlass commonly used on 50' boats. If you notice the star hole is offset and turns with the drum, the lewmar drum is capable of retrieving both chain and rode.

    http://www.bing.com/images/search?q...451A8154296C2FE1D742E5E6B2D88&selectedIndex=1
  4. Capt J, Nov 20, 2014
    #24
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    These are anchoring instructions from the Lewmar website:
    To drop anchor:
    1. Release any anchor locks
    2. Hold down on the integrated rocker switch
    3. Release button when the desired length of rode
    has been deployed.
    When anchoring, power rode out allowing the vessel to take up stern away, thus preventing the rode tangling
    with anchor and providing enough load to activate the “Load Sense” feature. Use this method also for mooring
    stern first to a jetty.
    6.1 Standard windlass operating procedures
    This is an anchor recovery device. DO NOT use the windlass to pull the boat to the anchor as it will damage
    the mechanism. DO NOT use the windlass to free a fauled anchor, use a secure fixed point on the deck to
    break the anchor free.
    To aid recovery, slowly and safely power the vessel at idle speed towards the anchor but not over and beyond,
    as this can cause damage to topsides.
    As anchor approaches the bow roller, use careful adjustments of controls to avoid damaging vessel. Start and
    stop the windlass to bring the anchor slowly into the bow roller.
    Pulling the last bit of rode and anchor into the bow roller at full speed can damage the boat, bow roller and
    windlass.
    When retrieving anchor do not
    overload or stall the windlass.
    First check that power is turned on to the windlass and that the circuit breaker is not tripped (push the
    button in to reset).
    To raise anchor:
    1. Hold up on the integrated rocker switch
    2. Release when the anchor is approaching the
    bow-roller
    3. Use the controls carefully until the anchor is
    home.
  5. K1W1, Nov 20, 2014
    #25
    K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    bowGIF.gif
  6. K1W1, Nov 20, 2014
    #26
    K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Off http://www.idealwindlass.com/

    The Lewmar one you reference seems to be a much more modern one and I did not see mention of any chain in the rode.

    That describes a bit like the winch on the front of my truck
  7. Chasm, Nov 20, 2014
    #27
    Chasm

    Chasm Senior Member

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    Ideal offers various motors in most of their windlass models, 12, 24, 32V DC and 115, 230V AC also hydraulic. They offer various custom solutions so chances are that there will be also options for customers in 50Hz county. Just insert a few more coins.

    Rewinding a DC motor to AC? That would be a different core, not simple rewinding.
    You can control the RPM of AC motors by increasing the number of magnetic poles, this divides the RPM by whole numbers. It also increases torque (less than it reduces RPM) this is mostly used in 3 phase motors, big old ones at that.
    60 Hz county so 3600, 1800, 1200, 900 RPM.

    If the speed is half of whats expected this could be the culprit.

    Then it is back to basics. The motor was changed.
    Did the windlass work before? If not so it may be also a mechanical problem.
    If it worked as expected before it may be a reassembly problem.

    The clutch issue. Do you have a manual and operate the windlass as it is supposed to be operated? Since Ideal is still around I'd contact them. Parts in and around the windlass are expensive, the risk for broken or lost body parts too high.
  8. Marmot, Nov 20, 2014
    #28
    Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    To quote the OP in the first words of the first line of the first post:

    "How fast is a large windlass suppose to retrieve?"

    Perhaps rather than assuming which windlass the OP has, he will tell us and eliminate all discussion based on a type that fits the point someone is trying to make.
  9. d_meister, Nov 20, 2014
    #29
    d_meister

    d_meister Senior Member

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    I ran a 70' yacht with the same ideal windlass that Capt J's picture shows. K1W1 is correct on the working of the windlass, but the clutch that is engaged by tightening the top nut is flat, much like an automotive clutch friction disc. It is between the capstan and the gypsy. The capstan is joined to the axle with a woodruff key, and the gypsy has the potential to freewheel when the top nut is eased.
    Danville Tim: I had the same problem with the windlass in that the clutch would not release either surface on the capstan and gypsy. It simply "stuck" to both surfaces and had to be broken free with a cheater bar prying against the chain between the anchor and gypsy. The Maxwell I had used in the Pacific Northwest this summer had a similar issue, but it would release once the anchor weight went past the bow roller by paying out chain with the foot switch. The Ideal windlass was a 120 volt AC motor with no reversing, so it had to be manhandled. Incidentally, we once snapped the axle shaft on the Ideal, possibly from enthusiastic anchor setting :(. It was a real pain to pull up 150' of 3/8" chain and a CQR anchor by hand. Always use a snubber!
  10. Capt Ralph, Nov 20, 2014
    #30
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    On our Ideal, the motor is pretty well protected in the back of the unit. Ours came with the ship and is 120Vac. Our ole Bert was prewired for DCv operation also. In my dealings, I did pick up a 32Vdc motor years ago as a backup.
    This last summer the metal back cover was looking sad. In replacing it with a plastic cover, I looked the motor over pretty well. Bone dry and happy.
    I think the OP may need to make sure he is getting 220Vac at the motor. I remember replacing a water pump on a 120Vac system, the motor was pre-strapped to 220Vac despite the 120Vac sticker on it. It spun up but just did not sound right. Found the strapping error, corrected and worked great. Maybe the problem here. Who converted the ships panel to 220Vac?
  11. Capt Ralph, Nov 20, 2014
    #31
    Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Also, the folks at Ideal are great.
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