Princess V52 vs Sea Ray 510 Sundancer

Both are tight on room. Your water maker option raises a question; You're looking for extended range?
And extended cruising?

How about a 2007 62' Sunseeker predator. There is a pristine one for sale that is around $1 mill. They offer a lot more room, much better engine room, and great ride. Of the 2 you mentioned, I'd go with the Searay. Easier to source parts, a simpler boat, engine room access is much better than the Viking which is very tight etc. The Viking may ride better than the Searay.

Showing your age referring to the Princess as a Viking. But they're divorced now. lol.

The thing missing from the OP is the intended use of the boat. What waters? ICW? Offshore? Short day cruising or long trips? Just along the coast or Bahamas? How many people aboard?

Well, I must have felt it did or wouldn't have asked. There are differences that might make one preferable to the other. When talking very similar boats, it's often the small differences. Actually very big difference between the propulsion choices just on the Sea Ray. Zeus option might enter into your equation.

Yes, for far more reasons than you're knowledgable of. Just as you might as well forget even using the washer/dryer on both boats as a 5 gallon bucket and a clothesline would be more effective. The w/d you're going to find will take over 4 hours to wash a whopping 4 t-shirts in because more won't fit, and you'll have to shut electrical stuff off on the boat even to run it. So in other words it's a major waste of time and space.

Ask the broker for a demo - try it before you buy it.

It all depends on the size of the genny. But on shorepower, you're going to be shutting something off in order to use the w/d, same if you're cooking......either the hot water heater and 1 a/c or this or that.......And, they're near useless in size and take 4 years and a forever.

Just comparing the two boats you indicated. The Princess is slightly longer (although that's really attributable to the very deep stern platform), has larger engines and is faster than the Sundancer with V-drives by 4 or 5 knots. It also reaches speed much sooner. The Princess gets slightly better fuel economy and because of a larger tank has much more range. At 2000 RPM (WOT is 3060) the Sea Ray is going 12.6 knots using 27.6 gph. At 1500 RPM (WOT is 2340), the Princess is going 17 knots and using 31.4 gph. This is the Princess with 715 hp CATS vs. the Sea Ray with 600 hp Cummins. Standard engines are 670 hp Volvo's on the Princess and 550 hp Cummins on the Sea Ray. WOT is 34.8 knots for the Princess and 29.6 for the Sea Ray. So performance wise I give a huge advantage to Princess.

Now, I figured the Sea Ray with Zeus would be better, but based on the tests on the 510 Fly and it's very disappointing performance, I am not convinced that's the case at all. In fact, I think the Zeus in the 510 is still disappointing.

I will admit to being surprised and very disappointed in the Sundancer's performance. Layouts I can't tell much difference. As to quality, I'd also not distinguish between the two. I think the Princess may win slightly on materials and the Sun Ray on consistency.

One more advantage of the Princess is a shallower draft. It's 3'9" vs. 4'7"-4'9" for the Sea Ray.

Now one advantage of the Sea Ray is probably delivery as it's probably in inventory and the Princess is likely to require ordering and waiting.

Still comparing the two I could not accept the performance deficiencies of the Sea Ray. It does not perform at all as I'd expect a planing hull to. Much more like a semi-displacement and not a very efficient one.

Either boat can fulfill your cruising needs as you're not talking about anything especially challenging. However, even if you were, I think either could handle more, especially the Princess.

As to washer dryer, watermaker and some of the other comforts of home, a 50' express generally doesn't accommodate them well. Either need another 10' or a different style boat. For instance a 50' semi-displacement more styled like a Trawler would or a larger Princess or Sea Ray. The boats you're talking about are generally designed for day cruising and weekend cruising and most don't wash clothes in those periods and do without extra water. Most would not consider those necessary for your planned cruising habits. Perhaps in 20 years when the oldest graduates from college and you're closer to retirement and thinking of weeks or months of cruising a different style boat with different amenities.

Seems to be kind of an odd spec. Would have thought test data would have included a standard cruise RPM of closer to 80% of WOT (~2450), 90% of WOT (~2750), or even "200 off the top" (2860).

I'd guess at 12.6 knots the boat would have been put on plane and then purposely brought back down to minimum planing RPMs. Maybe. (Ours won't much stay on plane below 14 kts, depending on sea states, etc.)

-Chris

These numbers are really odd. Odd in that fact that they're speeds that just aren't really used. If cruise speed and fuel burn posted it would be a much better comparison. Searay's have never been known to be blazing fast and they pretty much all cruise around 25 knots. Plenty fast enough for what the OP is looking to do. The Viking should cruise at 30 knots, but where. Most of the time you won't be running it at that speed due to sea conditions, and won't be able to in 3-5' and be backing it down. I also wouldn't be giving a huge performance advantage to the Viking, just speed.....as the Searay is using 1200HP to achieve it's speed and Viking is using 1430hp, so gpm should be about the same between the two at cruise speed (80% load).

Both boats have different rides. Either one will do the job of the OP. The searay will be much easier to work on, and also easier to get parts or someone that's knowledgable enough to work on them, mainly the Euro-trash electrical.

With all due respect, I do not agree with Capt J on a few points. My current boat is a Viking SC/Princess 50 flybridge and previous boat was a Sea Ray Sundancer. My experience is that the overall build quality is somewhat better on the Princess, as an example things like interior hardware and woodwork, structural hull elements (more extensive stringers - longitudinal and transverse and bulkheads that give rise to very little hull flex). I think you will also find that the Princess has a bit more deadrise aft but also a deeper forefoot making the boat slam less in head seas and track very well in following seas. My experience has been that the Princess/Viking is a good rough water boat.

As far as electrical goes, I have heard many complaints about the Italian boats, but have experienced no problems on my Viking SC. All of the main panels have good access and the wiring is well laid out and labeled. In fact I have never had an electrical problem in 6 seasons and many thousands of miles. I have had very good support from Viking in New Gretna and they stock many of the standard items for the Princess. In fact, I have had much better luck at Viking in NJ getting a knowledgeable person on the phone then at the larger Sea Ray operation.

To the OP, the reason many asked about the intended usage is that when you asked about water makers and washer/dryer, that signals more extended stays and longer distance cruising. Having gone from an express cruiser to a flybridge/salon boat, the flybridge design is much more amenable to longer distance cruising and extended stays. We, our family of four, routinely stay a few weeks at a time on our 50 ft Viking SC. Having 2 helms, and the additional space from the flybridge-salon layout make the boat feel much larger.

I didn't put the entire tests. For the Sea Ray at 2500 RPM, 21.8 knots, 40 gph. At 2000 RPM the Princess 29.4 knots, 44.6 gph so at 80% still much quicker and lower gpnm. I picked where I did initially to show the issue with getting the Sea Ray on top. But throughout the range the Sea Ray underperforms.

You can pick anywhere on the speed curve and the performance of the Sundancer 510 (and the fly version) is still significantly under that of the Princess V52 and the Princess fly 52. If I was doing longer cruising I'd prefer the fly as well. At the age of his kids the space on an express will be crowded but also easier to keep an eye on them.

I went in with no preconception and thought the boats were pretty equal, but I found boat tests and reviews that clearly indicate the Princess outperforms the Sea Ray at all RPM. Now this was only with the CAT engine that I found these.

As to complaints about the electrical on Italian yachts, I think that varies widely by builder and is much more closely associated with Azimut. But Princess did solve these issues long ago when they started their US aimed builds and separating them from the European production rather than taking a European destined boat and reworking it. Personally we own two Italian boats and have had zero electrical issues.

And I'm definitely not anti-Sea Ray and I owned two long ago and I think the 65 Fly is a very nice new design. I just don't think the 510 performs based on any tests and any RPM level I've seen. I think the 65 fly does. Note that at 1500 RPM it's at 14.1 knots and at 1750 RPM, 18.8 knots. At 2000 RPM, 24.5 knots. That is with twin 1150 CAT's. I don't know if the problem with the 510 is the boat design or the smaller Cummins just too small for that boat to perform vs. the CATS on the Princess and the larger Sea Ray.

These tests are all available and I'd encourage anyone looking just to google their way around and review the tests.

What other boats in that range have you looked at or considered?

What about a Sunseeker?

That's the first one that was on my mind. Predator or a San Remo. Or why not a fly like a Manhattan? Or a Sportriva? Probably more boat than he wants but a Ferretti 550. I know the wiring is a disaster but even an Azimut. And there are many others. Just curious why he settled on the two he did.