Engine Concepts...

Wasting time arguing here is counter productive. Put that thing in a boat to see how all your other concepts work. You claim superb cooling so stop whining about needing wet sleeves, anyone getting a free engine isn't going to worry about how the crank goes in or if it uses two injectors. You can always "improve" the design later.

If you want to wait until the "final design" is done and all mods are included before the thing turns a prop it simply isn't going to happen. You will have assured your total failure before even beginning.

That is the poster child assumption for the old saying "... makes an ass out of u and me." Why would any rational person make any such assumption and put money on the table?

You have the hardware to eliminate virtually every objection raised here ... the only thing between now and commercial success is you refusing to put your existing prototype in a boat and running it.

While trying to get up to speed today,

reading all the new post,

I find myself getting dizzy,

like I'm riding a merry-go-round.

That's like assuming pigs can fly. Durability is always an issue.

Everything comes with a trade off. Durability and performance are the most two important concerns in purchasing an engine.

Concepts

Are we having fun yet!!!!!!!

Put it in your own boat, Mike. The starting spot in convincing anyone is to take them for a ride in a boat powered by your engine. People want tangibles.

Concepts

If the final design prototype was no more than 12 months away would you feel the same way?

You just imagined it was moving. It's a concept.

Concepts

I'm not asking anyone to put their money down. I am asking for you to humor me for a moment and answer the questions assuming that durability is covered. This is like pulling hens teeth. If we keep working at this I think we will all be priming the same row before we are through.

A 167lb crankshaft for a 400hp diesel sounds awefully heavy, Trying to muscle that out from the top of the engine in a boat you'd typically install a 400hp diesel in would be a nightmare.

Here is where your problem lies. It's great that you invented/made all of these proprietary parts. But the problem is, nobody is going to buy your engine with all of these proprietary parts without a strong strong company and dealer network behind it. Suppose you manufacture engines and 3 years down the road go out of business, you have an engine you can't even change or repair a lot of minor parts on because you won't be able to get them. A raw water pump has a short lifespan compared to the engine it's bolted to. Even the big manufacturers use a commercially available water pump, made for many different engines, that will be supported 20 years from now. Quite frankly, licensing your design to a large ESTABLISHED manufacturer is the ONLY way I see any success in your design.

Let's take the Zues pod system, it was a totally new design that uses very few parts from other drive systems. You have Cummins and Mercruiser both backing it and responsible for designing it. To this day, very very few buyers in foriegn countries in far away places will even consider it. You also have a lot of people right here in the US who will not consider it, both due to the unknown and servicing and that it's a different system. Meanwhile, it offers great advantages with fuel economy (25-40% in a twin engine application PROVEN), manueverability, lack of vibration, and space savings over conventional drives. It's been over 10 years since it was introduced and in the market segment it was designed and built for, takes up a small percentage compared to conventional drives that have been around a century or so. The boats with Zues are just as fast, if not faster, quieter due to the smaller engines, add space to the interior of the boat and there really are no negatives to the system besides the servicing element/aspect. I have really rung out the Zues system, and it does really top a conventional drive system in every aspect (handling, docking, fuel range, maneuverability, lack of vibration, speed, engine noise, you name it). It's like comparing a chevy silverado to a corvette z06.

Now, here you come along with a similar concept, re-inventing the wheel, but with none of the backing. You are doomed for failure unless you can get one of the big guys to back it. That's a very large hurdle to overcome.

You're right Olderboater is no engineer or engine guy. HOWEVER, he has probably brought more technical products to market successfully than you could dream of. So his knowledge base is most pertinent to your success. It doesn't matter how great whatever it is you invented, if you cannot bring it to market it means nothing and has no success and is a failure. From all of these posts, your entire problem is funding and bringing it to market.

Absolutely ... why throw away an opportunity to get a year's worth of operational experience and data on all the parts other than the split line and cooling system?

Who knows, maybe your dry liners are the best idea, you already said it cooled exceptionally well. What designer or engineer wants to throw away the chance to get a year's worth of real world comparison of two ideas?

Use that time to experiment with injection systems and head design. Let someone else pay for the fuel, you have to build the parts anyway, might as well see if they work in real life at no risk to anyone but yourself. Lease the test engine for a dollar a year and include a SeaTow membership.

It doesn't matter whether it's 12 months away or 12 years. What you're trying to sell us is a hope and a dream. I agree with Marmot, get some working prototypes, give them to people in the commercial field that are willing to use them. Get some real published, reliable data. Many people are willing to give free engines a shot. I'd try to install them in a boat that has similar sized diesels already so you have a baseline. Tow boats, ferries, and things like that might be ideal Then once you have them tested. You can come back here with some real data.

You look at Cabo's website for sake or argument. They have a complete boat test with 800 MAN's on the 40' express, complete with all of the pertinent data at various RPM ranges, you see speed, fuel burn etc. Then you click on the 40' Cabo test with the 600hp Zues, more speed, less fuel burn, all of the data is there on their website. The boat is the same, the hull is virtually the same, you're comparing apples to apples. Not Apples to an empty orange tree with no fruit on it.

Concepts

I'm not selling anything, I'm talking CONCEPT. I'm still here, I'm not asking to move in with anyone. Let's talk design.

I thought you came here to ask if your design had a market in the yacht world. I t sure looked and smelled like a sales pitch.

I have a concept for a laser excited chloride accelerator drive system that only requires an 8kW generator to drive a 40m boat at 18 knots, wanna buy it?

Unless you are a yacht stylist, concepts don't count for squat, hardware is what turns props and we've already beat that horse to death.

This is getting boring because you have designs and you have have hardware but don't want to use it or even talk about it so why should anyone keep slogging through the "concept" muck to get nowhere?

Concepts

If you could have an engine that required no belts and used gear driven pumps and alternator, would that be a benefit you would like? Yes or No
Of course I would want a sheave for accessories or PTO if needed.

Concepts

I guess everyone went fishing.

Going fishing would be more productive. And apparently it is impossible to get you to understand that you can't take one element and simply say a yes or no. One must look at the entire picture. They are connected. Also must see the gear driven pumps and alternator working in chorus with it all. No one can say whether they'd like or dislike without something real to evaluate. I'd like to get twice the speed at half the cost and triple the life. But that doesn't mean anything to say that. Give me two engines side by side, one with belts, one with gear driven pumps and alternator, both tested fully and compared, and then I will say. And while I'm not an engineer, I'm fully capable of reading test results and making choices.

I would prefer: gear driven.

Thank you for your answer. I think most boaters would as well.

No cautious producer would place an engine in the market without thoroughly testing it for durability, so if the durability questions are answered, would you prefer a scavenging oil system with bulkhead mounted oil reservoirs or would you stick with the conventional oil pan? With the scavenging system the engine can be installed lower in the boat, lower center of gravity, and pre lube would be standard.

Scavenging oil system- Yes or No

As a former race car builder and driver, YES

The concept uses a split block and individual cylinders. Aluminum for diesels is a concern for most with thread life and rigidity being part of the concern. Metallurgy has made many advances and 200 or 300 aluminum, with the right heat treat offers tremendous rigidity and thread strength. It should be understood that every part for the concept can of course be cast in iron, if desired, so the use of more aluminum is not a requirement.
With a split block the lower block might be CGI, compacted graphite iron, and the upper block might be aluminum. With this approach every major bolt would anchor in iron or steel inserts. The use of more aluminum will of course reduce weight and it also transfers heat at a much faster rate. Again if thorough durability testing proved this out, would you think that the use of more aluminum in a marine diesel would be too much of a stretch for most? Yes or No