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The "Buck" engine

Discussion in 'Technical Discussion' started by kmb1949, Jul 25, 2014.

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  1. kmb1949

    kmb1949 New Member

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    Buck engine

    All I can say is .28 was the indicated value. The link Using BSFC #'s indicates this is possible in small 4 stroke high speed diesels. Not to belabor the point but I was always taught that indicated readings are not necessarily actual readings. This is why I said that the .28 was an indicated value and not an actual value.

    How many 5 liter 4 cylinder engines have you seen that make 340 horsepower@ 2800RPM. Maybe those numbers are fantasy as well. How many guys in a small shop have you seen build a diesel engine from scratch.
  2. P46-Curaçao

    P46-Curaçao Senior Member

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    Don't get frustrated, there are a lot of wise and experienced members here, but also some wiseacres...:rolleyes:
  3. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Make up your mind, your are either claiming BSFC or ISFC and there is a world of difference. If you have really operated an engine in a test cell and measured actual BHP output and fuel consumption you can tell us what the BSFC really is. Don't come here claiming BSFC if you don't have it. It is probably the simplest number to obtain from an engine on a dyno in a test cell.

    If you have just calculated your claims based on your design numbers then just say so. Claiming BSFC for an engine that has never run so that real data has been collected is bogus. Have you actually run one of these marvels? If you have why don't you provide real data instead of calculated theoretical numbers that are meaningless to those who would use the engine?

    If you don't know the difference between brake and indicated then there are more deeply rooted questions related to your claims and your reasons for making them here.

    Not only the above, but if it has run, what are the emissions? Is it going to be legal to sell? Can it be made to meet current limits? Even the best engines have had their fuel efficiency reduced to meet emissions standards because the best conditions for combustion can be the worst for emissions.
  4. Old Phart

    Old Phart Senior Member

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    I dunno

    Perhaps a shoehorn was required for the refit.

    Pumpkin — Luxury Yacht Charter & Superyacht News
  5. kmb1949

    kmb1949 New Member

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    Actual dynamometer readings.
  6. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Which one?
  7. kmb1949

    kmb1949 New Member

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    Buck engine

    If I assume that persons posting here have actually read the previous post, is that assuming too much? I thought that post 33 was plain enough that I have actually tested engines on the dynamometer. For me, in testing engines, all numbers are indicated values until the results have been reproduced numerous times and in different test cells. One test cell run does not an actual, publishable result make.
  8. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    I assumed you knew the difference between indicated and brake and since you are here to flog a new engine by describing its attributes you would use the terms correctly because there are a few here who know the difference.
  9. kmb1949

    kmb1949 New Member

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    Buck engine

    It really doesn't matter if we are talking indicated or actual, the .28 is possible and your argument is that it isn't. It may not be possible with most designs but what I have here isn't like most designs. If technical is what you are looking for then try this.

    Every engine in service (other than the large ship engines) today, cools by circulating coolant from the front of the engine to the back, in the engine block around the cylinders and then returning the coolant through the cylinder heads back to the front of the engine (there may be a few small intermittent holes from the block up to the cylinder head along the way). I have seen a couple of engines that are reversed but they are still front to back and back to front. In this form of cooling the rear cylinders operate at higher temperatures than the front cylinders and the cooling is less than optimal. Temperature stacking and hot spots are a problem. I think you should agree that as power is increased that every engine reaches a point at which it can no longer cool itself. I think you will also agree that the higher the heat, with the same amount of fuel, the higher the efficiency and that the same amount of fuel can be burned at different efficiency levels. Compression ratios effect efficiency as well as fuel combustion timing. If you increase the compression ratio you increase efficiency as well as increase the heat. If you inject the fuel earlier in the cycle, combustion takes place sooner and the cylinder pressure goes higher and the heat goes up. If you increase the boost pressure the cylinder pressure goes higher and the heat goes up. In the end if you want to increase the engine efficiency you must increase the amount of heat with the same amount of fuel.

    With the increased heat you must increase the cooling efficiency of the engine or the engine will melt down from all that increased fuel efficiency and higher temperatures. That is where the Buck design moves to the head of the class. Instead of front to back series cylinder cooling the Buck design uses individual parallel cooling. The last cylinder in line receives the same temperature coolant as the first cylinder. The cooling path for each cylinder is less than 20 inches whereas a conventional engine cooling path might be 8 or 10 feet or more. Aluminum transfers heat at 4 times the rate of iron so with the Buck cylinder heads and cylinder jugs, being made from aluminum, the radiant heat transfer is far superior to the heavy cast iron engine parts. Engine oil that moves through the cylinder head and jug is also cooled to a greater degree. The cylinders on the Buck engine do not touch each other (1/4 inch or more gap) so there is no heat transfer from one cylinder to another. The upper block of the final design is aluminum so oil and coolant cooling is also increased. The oil pans are aluminum with heat sink designs. The Buck engine uses a very high efficiency after cooler as well so that higher boosting is possible. Compressed air temperatures of 350+ degrees F are reduced to intake raw water temperature (equal to the temperature of the water the boat is operating in. The idea is that you can only increase the power and efficiency if you can increase the cooling. The first consideration for the Buck design was the cooling efficiency of the engine. I feel confident that the Buck design cools better than anything currently produced.

    With better cooling the Buck design can increase the compression ratio to 18 to 1. With better cooling the boost pressure can be increased to 50 PSI. And with better cooling the power density level can be increased.

    One last thing that may effect the fuel efficiency, to a considerable degree. We expect to operate the engines by reading the dynamic cylinder pressure of each cylinder and using that data to adjust fuel delivery to each cylinder in order to balance all of the cylinder peak pressures. If 1500 psi per cylinder is required in order to maintain a selected RPM, then each and every cylinder will be making 1500 psi. This will maintain an even load on the rotating assembly parts and reduce wear. It also has the potential to increase fuel efficiency. No this has not been tested but it is possible today with existing technology.

    In the end the Buck design has the potential to be the lightest, most compact, highest power density and most fuel efficient engine ever offered to the marine market. It should be able to do this while maintaining good durability. None of this is strange or off the wall. It is for the most part just taking advantage of starting from scratch with a totally new engine architecture and not being anchored to doing the same thing that has been done for the past 100 years.
  10. ranger58sb

    ranger58sb Senior member

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  11. kmb1949

    kmb1949 New Member

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    Buck engine

  12. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    I came across this while trying to work out if the smell of smoke is such that I need a mirror to see it or if the flames will soon be apparent for all to see.

    Buck Marine Diesel - Page 2 - Diesel Bombers

    A couple of things caught my attention, mostly was the reported BSFC being somewhat higher than yours, second was mention of the boss owning a boat with two CATS. If this is in fact you the best way to get a set of engines out there would be to become your own repower customer and run it to all the shows.

    You could do demos of backing into the slip and changing a power unit before the crew had finished tidying up and berthing.
  13. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    :D

    This is beginning to remind me of a visit you and I made to a factory in Nice a couple of years ago. Of course that turned out to be more hot air than smoke but it sure feels like deja vu all over again.
  14. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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  15. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    I think OlderBoater's thoughts mirror the smoke that Marmot and K1W1 are smelling. While the Buck engine looks promising and we're always interested in evolving technologies, we don't allow market research or promotion. Although a number of our members are venture capitalists, YF isn't the right place to seek venture capitol, or even crowd-sourced funding.

    Kmb1949, you've had good feedback from some qualified folks, but it's time for us to move on to other subjects and let you continue with further development. This thread is being closed.

    When you've accumulated the data referenced by Marmot and others, then check back in with us and you will likely find skepticism subsided.
  16. kmb1949

    kmb1949 New Member

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    Buck engine

    I thought that new engine design and development was within the scope of your rules. I am not selling anything, only discussing design benefits and research and development. I apologize if I crossed the line.
  17. SFS

    SFS Senior Member

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    I'm not trying to start a riot (or even an uproar), but how does one post in a closed thread?
  18. YachtForums

    YachtForums Administrator

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    My bad! Forgot to close it. Was juggling code during my previous post.
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