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Port idle conking out

Discussion in 'Carver Yacht' started by tommyfmu, Jun 22, 2014.

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  1. tommyfmu

    tommyfmu Member

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    Our port engine, relatively new rebuild and overhauled Holley 750 cfm carb was working fine going out this morning, idle and in and out of gear. When we got to our destination about 3 miles away, we went to dock and port shut down so we aborted, threw anchor and checked a few things. Oil pressure had been fine but all of a sudden needed 3 quarts. No puddle under it in the bilge. Still wouldn't idle without shutting down. Idle set to about 650 rpms like starboard but stalling in gear. Added oil and got her back to the dock. Changed fuel filter and raised idle to about 950rpm, the lowest to keep it at because when shifting to F or R it drops to about 200. Set screws on carb seem ok out about 1 1/2 turns each. Starboard idles at 650 and drops to only like 450 lowest when put in gear so somethings not right with port but am trying to self diagnose due to BOAT x 3 recently on the genny. Any ideas? Crusader 350XL's with Velvet drives.
  2. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Where did the 3 quarts of oil go? If they're not in the bilge, you've got a serious problem with that recently rebuilt engine....... Either a dead/bad cylinder with low compression causing the oil to burn and the motor to not have power to pull a load at idle and dieing.......I'd start by doing a compression check.....Is there water in the oil?

    What caused it to need to be rebuilt? How old are the exhaust manifolds and risers?
  3. tommyfmu

    tommyfmu Member

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    Not sure about the oil. Marina changed it and filter at the end of last season, or at least that's what the bill says. Checked all around this afternoon and no oil in the bilge and no noticeable leaks. No excessive blue or white exhaust; seems normal. No loss of power when given throttle, even at cruising 3200rpms. Didn't notice any water in the fuel filter removed. Also checked tranny fluid warm which smelled fine, and plenty.

    It was rebuilt because of a leaking remote oil filter that had a bad seal. Dropped the oil three times from the prior engine; never ceased but internal bearings affected. Exhaust mani's and risers were new with the rebuild; both done three years ago with about 50 hours max. No problems with heat as it max's out at about 140 deg F.
  4. Maybe Knot

    Maybe Knot Member

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    I'm guessing you might have been lax in checking your oil...until it needed 3 quarts. As for power and stall problem, check your alternator. Sounds to me like you have an electrical problem somewhere.
  5. mwwhit1

    mwwhit1 Senior Member

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    I think the engine is idling fine but issue is just in gear?

    Easy things first.

    Did you verify nothing is wrapped around the prop that could be causing the extra load to stall it? I would think you would have felt a vibration at cruise but who knows. Were you using a synchronizer at the 3200 cruise? If so, that could be almost full throttle with the extra load and you don't even know it.

    While under the boat, spin the prop and make sure it moves normally for your boat.
  6. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    Just came to my mind from out-there but something to check.

    You may have already oil fouled a spark plug. Cylinder not igniting so no blue smoke. But you're running a V-7 or V-6 now.

    With more solid motor mounts, sometimes it's hard to feel a mis fire in a boat.
  7. bobhorn

    bobhorn Member

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    >>>While under the boat, spin the prop and make sure it moves normally for your boat. <<<

    Not familiar with this boat, but couldn't you just grab the coupling at the transmission and see if you can spin the shaft? If you are already under the boat it should be pretty obvious visually if something is wrapped around the prop or shaft.

    Bob
  8. tommyfmu

    tommyfmu Member

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    mwwhit1, That never occurred to me, although don't believe that'll be the issue; when it's put into F or R, kicks right in without hesitation either way. If it was something wrapped around the prop or shaft, I would think tough one way but easier the other. Secondly almost all debris near the boat is floating, or washes away with the 6' of tidal action in our area; nothing stays in place for long, and usually ends up in the marsh. Will turn the shaft from inside per bobhorn's suggestion first. Am having my mechanic down tomorrow to tell me why my genny isn't hooked up to it's battery, so at the same time will ask him to consider what's wrong with the stbd engine, and rcrapps maybe he'll diagnose the plug(s). Thanks for all the suggestions and will revert back.
  9. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    It could also be ignition timing......
  10. tommyfmu

    tommyfmu Member

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    My mechanic heard something wrong right away without even putting it into gear. Not the carb. One piston not firing. Changed plugs; one was in bad shape; was hoping the new plug would clean up the cylinder. No such luck. Next week will be to check under the head cover, I guess for valves, springs, rocker arms etc., even though it's a Jasper LH rotat. rebuilt 3 years ago.
  11. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Do you know if the plug that was replaced actually sparks?

    The lead or distributor cap might be the culprit.

    Before whipping the valve covers off run a compression test on the cylinder in question.
  12. tommyfmu

    tommyfmu Member

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    Yes, the new one sparks. Due to really tight space, the mech compression tested one cylinder on the accessible side, but not the culprit cylinder.
  13. Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    If you can change the sparkplug, you can get the flexible rubber compression tester hose screwed into the spark plug hole which is easier than threading the spark plug in there. That doesn't sound right. You can also plug the spark plug hole with your finger and should feel if there's enough compression for the cylinder to fire or very little......make sure the coil is unplugged when you do that.
  14. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    750 cfm on a 350 SBC?
    Rebuilt Chevys? Bent push rod or broken valve spring.
    I don't understand his reasoning for not pursuing a few more easy checks. Looking forward to the results.
  15. tommyfmu

    tommyfmu Member

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    750cfm Holley double pumper on Jasper rebuilt 350 5.7 ltr to replace Crusader. I think since the rebuild was only 3 yrs old with low hours, he compression checked an easily accessible plug hole, and extrapolated that the non-firing cylinder had compression; ring and piston ok. If it's a broken valve spring or bent push rod, is that a relatively quick and easy fix for him once the valve cover comes off? [I hope I hope I hope I hope].
  16. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    Where do you get the idea that test one if its ok the rest must be too?

    If I had even suggested such a thing to my foreman when doing my apprenticeship I would have been immediately transferred to the lawnmower shop.
  17. tommyfmu

    tommyfmu Member

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    Since it has spark, even if he checked for compression, wouldn't the next check be what's under the valve cover? I'm no expert but isn't it easier to lift the cover first and check springs, arms and rods rather than take the block apart to see whether the ring is blown or piston cracked?
  18. K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    you will have to expose all that gear if you do lift the head so a compression test is no major deviation, if it tests low and a bit of oil down the spark plug hole improves it you can fairly safely say rings are at fault, if no diff valves are likely.
  19. Capt Ralph

    Capt Ralph Senior Member

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    That is still an oversized carb for a SBC on regular gas. Interesting.
    You have a cylinder that is not firing. Supposedly it's not a plug. He can change a plug but not run a compression check on the suspect lung.

    Get another mechanic before he takes any more of your time and money.
  20. Chasm

    Chasm Senior Member

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    Basically five things are necessary to run an engine:
    fuel
    air
    compression
    spark (not on a diesel ;) )
    timing (spark and engine internal)

    Also:
    fuel air ratio
    mechanical integrity of the engine


    As I've understood the problem:
    It's a gas engine with carburetor and distributor, a single cylinder misfire, the affected cylinder has spark.
    A rebuild has been mentioned, the engine did work after it.

    The usual suspects are:
    no spark, already ruled out
    not enough fuel, ruled out because carburetor instead of injectors, would effect more than one cylinder in this case
    timing problems (spark OR engine internal)
    Spark timing is unlikely, it should affect more than one cylinder.
    Engine internal timing, say a skipped timing belt or chain, is unlikely as it should affect more than one cylinder.

    low compression
    Still unknown, compression testing an unaffected cylinder does not really help this case.

    Also possible: Engine internal mechanical failure. Say a stuck valve as it would affect only one cylinder.


    The question in diagnosis is always: What is the next easiest step?
    I think compression testing the affected cylinder. If you can change a spark plug you can screw in a compression test hose.

    Alternatively, using specialist equipment and expert knowledge, using an in-cylinder pressure transducer and graphing the compression curve of the affected cylinder and probably one other. This can give a lot of insights without opening the engine. (Mostly timing and compression but also much more obscure things like vale seat wear.)
    Needs similar access as the normal compression test. This is certainly not a go / no go test, interpretation of the curves is key. Thus the need for someone with actual experience in this field.
    (Probably way too much here, throwing it in as option for other cases.)


    Also, there was an oil loss. Did it persist? Did the spark plug of the affected cylinder show signs of oil contamination while the others did not? Maybe even serve contamination?
    That would indicate a mechanical problem, say piston rings.
    So one could go for broke and and pull the cover off - if it's necessary in order to remove the engine to get at the pistons from below.

    But even in that case, the compression test should be quick and only reinforce the decision to pull the engine.


    The rebuild was carburetor only?
    If it was also an engine rebuild don't forget to take a look at warranties that may have been included.