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Choosing a yard to build a new yacht?

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by NEO56, Jun 12, 2014.

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  1. NEO56, Jun 18, 2014
    #81
    NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    Hi Old Phart, No...too much boat above the waterline for my tastes. It looks like a much older boat to me. Take a look at the Nordlund 111', that's pretty close to what I want, and take a look at the Specs on this boat. Very impressive, the **** thing actually has a winch for pulling up crab traps! I know what's coming next...I should by that boat. It's too much boat for me.
  2. NEO56, Jun 18, 2014
    #82
    NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    On another note

    I joined this Forum to get educated and to exchange ideas and opinions. Although I'm as thick skinned as the next guy, I don't appreciate getting bashed for expressing my thoughts and concerns. If you don't have something constructive to contribute, I'd prefer you don't post on this thread. I'm trying to get my bearings here, I'm about to spend a whole lot of money on a floating home, and would like some kind of knowledge base to operate from. I've owned two diesel boats in my life, both sportfisherman's, and I'm out of my depths with a boat this size. My last boat was over 15 years ago, and although I read Power and Motoryacht every month, I've never built a boat....so why don't you geniuses cut me a little slack.
  3. Capt J, Jun 18, 2014
    #83
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Well, I think that everyone was trying to help you out. Then you come up with this huge issue with hitting something and sinking, which all in all is a very rare occurance. Outrunning a hurricane.......what else? Just have a good yacht built and be happy with it. As well as using all of these strange hull building techniques that don't work together. Aluminum can be very strong and is what all of the crew and supply boats in LA and TX use in 35' seas to service oil rigs. If you want a one off boat Aluminum is also a very easy material to use for that. You want a yacht, go to a good builder and tell them to build it the way they are familiar with and know how.
  4. olderboater, Jun 18, 2014
    #84
    olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    This from one whose first words on the forum were "I'm sorry but this is a total crock!"
  5. NEO56, Jun 18, 2014
    #85
    NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    Capt J, Hitting something, especially crossing shipping lanes is a concern for me. You spoke of Aluminum, I consider them throw away boats...they are very expensive to maintain, and noisy. I ridden in several Egret flats boats with the entire hull made out of Kevlar, and they weren't noisy at all. And I was referring to one or two layers of Kevlar in the layup schedule. And I do appreciate all of the feed back. I just don't care for cheap shots. I don't intend on "outrunning" a hurricane...just getting out of it's path, there's a difference. I have my reasons for living in the Caribbean (this isn't a political site, so no explanation is needed.) And I agree, I'm going to go to a competent Builder and let them tell me what I can and can't do. I'd love to build a Steel hull boat that would cruise at 18-20 knots, but can't afford to build a 300 foot displacement yacht that would have that kind of hull speed. I've forgotten the formula for computing hull speed on a displacement boat.
  6. olderboater, Jun 18, 2014
    #86
    olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    So you think Moonen is a throw away boat? Burger? Trinity? Heesen? K&M? And the boat you're talking about won't be expensive to maintain?
  7. Capt J, Jun 18, 2014
    #87
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Feadship....Luursen......the list goes on and on. Yeah Aluminum can be a little more expensive to maintain, but there are many fine yachts made out of it. Throw away it is not, as it can always be fixed......at a price of course.

    When you do 15,000NM per year minimum, each and every year, for the past decade and have never hit anything worthwhile or noteworthy, then you can comment on fear of hitting something. While it is possible, there are far more worries in yachting and to make it such an extreme worry is mind boggling. Perhaps if that is such a fear, a steel ice classed yacht should be in your future and that should be able to handle itself in a hurricane......something like normally found on the deadliest catch should do the job. It is amazing how strong a typical fiberglass hull really is. I cannot tell you how many yachts I've seen go skidding across a sandbar at 20-35 knots and not have major damage to the hull.
  8. NEO56, Jun 18, 2014
    #88
    NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    Really? You're comparing Moonen, Burger, etc. to a freakin crew boat? I'm sure the quality of the above mentioned is somewhat better...but it's still an Aluminum hull...and requires much more maintenance than a fiberglass boat. I wouldn't own an Aluminum boat period.
  9. NEO56, Jun 18, 2014
    #89
    NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    You obviously have more experience than I do. I'll just shut up...and stop trying to contribute.
  10. NEO56, Jun 18, 2014
    #90
    NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    One more thing

    Aluminum is probably the most corrosive metal known, why anyone would build a boat to exist in a salt environment is beyond me.
  11. K1W1, Jun 18, 2014
    #91
    K1W1

    K1W1 Senior Member

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    Hi,

    You might want to clarify that point.
  12. Capt J, Jun 18, 2014
    #92
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Because it works. Because it can be easily fixed. Because if you take care of it, it lasts generations. Look at all of the Aluminum Chris Craft roamers built in the 1950's 1960's on here. It's really not all that bad to take care of. Aluminum can be strong and relatively lightweight. It's very easy to make changes to the design or build a one-off custom yacht with it. If you want to modify the hull design from one yacht to the next it's really easy. Fiberglass, it takes about 7 yachts popped out of that mold before you begin to make a profit. Every yacht design has a material that is better suited to it than another. Aluminum has it's place in that food chain just like any of the others. Not to mention after you hit that metal shipping container and salvage the boat, you can recoup some of your investment selling the Aluminum as scrap! What is a useless old fiberglass hull worth. The only material I've seen really lose it's place is a wooden boat.

    Commercial boats rely on Aluminum to go out in up to 35' seas day in and day out. Yachts have lasted 60+ years with Aluminum hulls. So how can you say it's the worst material to build a yacht out of? Yeah, you have to be a little careful not to drop metal in the bilge, keep zincs on it, and get paint bubbles here and there after 5 or so years.....but Aluminum still has it's merit's. If you cannot afford to properly maintain a yacht, then you have no business buying one.

    Since you're so knowledgable about building yachts, I think you should buy a factory/warehouse and get to work building your own yacht and we'll see first hand how well it works out. Maybe some steel impregnated fiberglass......throw some Nano Greens in the fuel tank with the diesel.....and off you go....Mount a long range foward facing metal detector on the bow for those pesky shipping containers......And a Hurricane tracking weather balloon on the flybridge with 10,000' of cord.......and off you go.........Another option would be to buy Baden and you can work out all of the stability issues. Heck, look how strong it is, it rolled over, has been lifted by a crane, and the hull is still in one piece. I bet you a shipping container would be no match for it.
  13. CaptPKilbride, Jun 18, 2014
    #93
    CaptPKilbride

    CaptPKilbride Senior Member

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    Well, this makes the second time (that I have seen) that you wrote, "I was trying to make a point"

    Which would lead the casual observer to believe that it's the writing skills that need to be worked on. "Somebody" would appear to be up to par in the reading comprehension department.

    Let me know if you decide to include some of that unobtainium in your hull layup schedule. I have a good source for things like that, including 40 lb. sledgehammers.

    Which, by the way I would pay good money to see you try and swing.
  14. Yachtjocky, Jun 18, 2014
    #94
    Yachtjocky

    Yachtjocky Senior Member

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    Boat types

    Hi NEO56,

    02.41am, "I'll just shut up....and stop trying to contribute."

    02.53am, "Aluminum is probably the most corrosive metal known, why anyone would build a boat to exist in a salt environment is beyond me."

    Well you lasted 12 minutes :D

    I would suggest you keep reading and writing, keep your thick skin on, dismiss the drivel that some write (cored is not heavier than solid' etc) keep learning, surround yourself with knowledgeable and experienced people. Choose a builder with a track record of building the size of yacht you are looking to purchase.

    Besides choosing the builder take extra time in choosing the equipment, all well and good having a new boat with warranties but what are they worth if the areas you propose to cruise in have no service technicians to do that warranty work.

    More yachts of any material are damaged by professional captains than yachts driven by owners hitting shipping containers, just a thought. :cool:
  15. captholli, Jun 18, 2014
    #95
    captholli

    captholli Senior Member

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    Well said yacht jockey !
  16. Capt Bill11, Jun 19, 2014
    #96
    Capt Bill11

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    I was thinking of some kind of shoe formed to match and mate to the keel to protect it in the event it strikes something hard like a container.

    The reason I would be hesitant to embed metal into the laminate is because of differing expansion rates, any corrosion, etc. causeing the metal and laminate to separate from one another.

    It's possible it could be done I guess. Perhaps some one here knows the answer. It would just make me nervous to do so.
  17. NEO56, Jun 19, 2014
    #97
    NEO56

    NEO56 Member

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    Hi Capt Bill11, Thank you for your input. I spoke with someone in Washington today, and was enlightened to some degree. I was also put on a conference call, and while my steel plate wasn't poo pooed, they said they'd do some research and get back with me. I really do like this yard, they'll listen to all of my concerns and then reply with their solutions, or why it will or won't work.
  18. Capt J, Jun 19, 2014
    #98
    Capt J

    Capt J Senior Member

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    Sailboats mate a lead keel to fiberglass all of the time. If you hit something hard enough to break the fiberglass keel off, the entire hull is going to be very compromised and I don't forsee the boat staying afloat.....shoe or no shoe....
  19. Capt Bill11, Jun 20, 2014
    #99
    Capt Bill11

    Capt Bill11 Senior Member

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    I guess that is true. But lead is a bit of a different animal compared to metals like SS and aluminum.

    As to what would happen in the event of the keel hitting something hard, the metal shoe should give it more impacted resistance I would think. And some keels, like the ones on the old style GBs are actually hollow and glassed to the hull. So you could severely damage them without compromising the hull.

    I have seen some boats from time to time with such a plate at the bow going down below the water line. Not sure how effective they really are if you hit something as solid as a container.

    So you may be right that a container is so large and heavy that anything short of a solid metal hull of the correct thickness is not
    I guess that is true. But lead is a bit of a different animal compared to metals like SS and aluminum.

    As to what would happen in the event of the keel hitting something hard, the metal shoe should give it more impacted resistance I would think. And some keels, like the ones on the old style GBs are actually hollow and attached to the So you could severely damage them without compromising the hull.

    I have seen some boats from time to time with such a plate at the bow gnd with my background....I have never been surprised by thunderstorms while anchored...because I don'oing down below the water line. Not sure how effective they really are if you hit something as solid as a container.

    So you may be right that a container is so large and heavy that anything short of a solid metal hull of the correct thickness is not going to be of much help in the event you hit or run over one.
  20. olderboater, Jun 20, 2014
    #100
    olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    While steel boats are more resistant to collision damage, let's not fool ourselves into thinking a steel hull is completely impervious to damage.
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