Brokers!! What do they do for 5%???

Well, this is what you can expect for 5%. A good Broker is 10%..

You need to look more. My experience with US brokers has been excellent. Then again I went through quite a few to find the right guys or ladies.
Can't vouch for the Europeans. If they are anything like the representatives of the builders, then I know what you mean, remember you are a world away from them and many won't believe they are dealing with a buyer, but a dreamer, until they see an offer.

What a broker does for his money is show the boat umpteen times to tire kickers, figure out who is for real, and then handle negotiations. Owners are seldom able to negotiate effectively. They either fold too fast or hold too long. A good broker helps him get real.

P.S. I assume that 5% is his split, because 10% is real, but the broker will often cut his commission if needed to finalize the negotiations.

As a buyer, a good broker can assist you greatly in locating the boat that best meets your desires and needs. They can also see you through the entire purchase process.

For the seller, they expose the boat widely and show it.

It's no different than a real estate agent for a home. One can go without but most find it very beneficial to use them. On the other hand there are good and bad and you'll find you're compatible with some but not with others. Good brokers are professionals who very much earn their commission.

I certainly hope it's NOT the same as a real estate broker!

As a real estate investor myself, my situation is a little different than the typical home buying couple who may look at 4 or 5 homes (or 40 or 50!) before finding their "dream home" (aren't all buyers one time "dreamers", BTW?), and then putting their offer in and hopefully, NOT telling the agent how much higher they are REALLY willing to go, since they will almost certainly wind up "coincidentally", paying that amount in their final agreement.

In my situation, over the years, I have looked at THOUSANDS of properties, from single family homes to multi-residential and commercial, some pristine, some distressed, most in-between.

In almost every situation, beyond the agent leading me around saying "here's the kitchen" (those cabinets and sink were a dead give-away), and "here's the bathroom" (I knew it myself when I saw the toilet) and "it's got a swing-set in the backyard" (SOLD!!!!), most sales agents didn't do anything more than "show up" and I can't tell you how many times they didn't even do THAT!

If I want to sell my boat some day (I guess more realistically, "when"), I hope the agent does more than say "here's the swim platform" and "here's the flybridge" as some of the agents did with my wife and I when we were shopping.

There is, as has been so rightfully pointed out, a HELLUVA lot more to successfully marketing an expensive toy than THAT!

But, in the end, it's really in the buyer's best interest to be as knowledgeable as possible about what he's buying BEFORE he signs on the dotted line, and just as important to the seller to know HOW a boat should be aggressively brought to market so as best to find it's new proud owner.

As much as I hate to say it, I think at the end of the day, the broker who is "good" does really earn that 10% commission.


But how many are good enough to earn TEN PERCENT of your boat's selling price? (You megayacht owners, do the math!)

IMHO and experience, not as many as we would hope.

Well, our real estate broker is excellent and has an impeccable reputation. So hoping he finds a boat broker equal to her. It is similar in the respect they aren't all the same. I would also say our broker when we sold in NC was either great or the luckiest in the world. Our neighbor actually found her for us.

As to boat brokers I know some I respect a great deal and then some I wouldn't go near. But I don't think that's any different than the professions any of us have been in, good and bad.

Ok, here's how a broker might help you. First, your questions do not tell them you're serious. They get inquiries such as yours all the time from those who aren't. Phone. Email. They really give only a limited feel. This is where a broker really might help you. A very good local broker, Australian broker that you've met and talked to face to face. Then the broker makes the calls, asks the questions. You don't spend all your time chasing and coming from a broker might get a better response. If face to face you convince this broker that you're serious and their job is simply to find the boat that matches your requirements, it might just work.

Fact is, I'm sitting in my nice office in the UK. You call from Australia, a random call as a Yacht World searcher. I might think, "oh, just another time waster." Especially if I have a local client I have met who I need to be working for. They should treat all callers as potential buyers but the impulse is to go with the odds. I would advise finding one broker you really trust, get to know them, and put them to work. See how that works for you. See if they earn their half of the commission. A good one will. They'll find you the right boat, tell you the cost to get it to Australia, tell you what needs to be done to import it, talk about details like refrigerant. The broker sitting in Newport, RI is probably going to consider a call from a broker more seriously. At any rate, a professional broker will insist on response and knows how to work with them.

You need a buyer's broker, not a seller's broker, in your life.

Remember: 5% + 5% = 10%

Deal with the correct 5%.

Keep It Simple Sailor.

Thanks for the input, unfortunately I'm located in the most isolated city in the World, Perth, Western Australia.

You might not have the right broker for you in your area, so go outside that sphere? Brokers do not have to be resident in your community, they only need to be knowledgeable about you particular interests. Don't be confined to geography, but be real and serious, otherwise your preventing some professional an opportunity to provide for his family. Like any professional, than can be a valuable asset in our search if you get the right one for you!

Good luck and update us on your purchase?

So, am I correct that your initial post, while having question marks, was really intended just as a rant, not a question?

Good luck with doing it your way. I think you're putting some things out of order. The survey generally doesn't come up front, but an offer is made contingent on the survey, then the survey done, and then either proceed or terminate the offer. I do strongly encourage choosing your own surveyor rather than one suggested by the selling broker.

Your approach will work, but that does not mean a good buyer's broker couldn't have benefited you, just you're choosing to go a different route. I believe it will be more time consuming and may be more costly in the long run, but then it might not. You might get to Europe and immediately identify the boat of your dreams.

Again, the best of luck and let us know how it goes.

Thomo,
I would not bother with a local broker. You are just adding another possible problem.
Pick a highly reputable brokering and or chartering company in Europe or the US and stick with them to find you the right vessel, with your constant input. Some are worldwide and I won't mention them online. Don't go for the flashy double page advertisement companies, go by their years in business.
I have been importing boats from the US since 1996. Starting with 30' then up to 60'.
I will admit that this is the first time I have heard of the Import Duty not applying to a vessel over a certain in length.
Buying a US made product will not incur Import Duty due to the Free Trade Agreement with the US, even if this boat is imported from Europe.
If it seems I am pushing a US boat then I don't meant to. The fact is my Italian experiences and French experiences in trying to get a deal done have resulted in the same frustrations you are going through. Shipping from Europe has always been more costly in my experience. Add to that the taxes VAT etc. and I find the US a better market to buy from. Not to mention ownership questions. If the survey, contracts and dealings are done in a language and under a legal system you are not fluent in, then let the brokerage firm carry the load.
Good luck

First brokers primary purpose is to be an expert and a "friend" to help find what you want or a buyer for your asset. They are a hired agent for you. Expert in they should know the market both in business and technical senses. I suppose the "Friend" part is to have someone familiar that you trust to deal with. If you don't trust him or her don't bother.
The agency aspect is very important to remember is exactly how much are an agent are they. An agent can and is usually assumed barring a legal agreement limiting that agency authority have absolute representative authority for you... they can obligate you to most anything... remember that!
See below...
Personally, I do not like most brokers because they are not "expert" and they are "friends."

A repost that is on subject:
Buying and selling assets that involve significant money in an international forum is not something one can take lightly.

Partly this is my aversion to brokers now-a-days they try to be everything to everyone but recognize legally in most jurisdictions they are solely responsible to themselves and not the buyer or seller. IN the USA they have a fiduciary obligation to the client... not so everywhere... remember that and that often times you may be dealing in an international forum in the transaction.
The other complicating issue is cross jurisdictional transactions involving assets in several countries with different laws applicable. Buying a boat in Florida from a US owner by a US buyer is one thing buying a boat owned by a Marshal Island corporation, registered in Guernsey, and operated in various spots around the world complicate things immeasurably. Along with the fact the decision makers are in different countries. Taxation authority complicates this more. I use the term decision maker rather than owner because most expensive yachts are not owned by an individual but by an entity of some kind controlled by a person. Once in awhile a person owned the thing as personal property but that is not smart now-a-days.

Most broker's agents are people living on the fringes. This is ok but would one really trust them?

Sales contracts and buyers contracts are what they are but realize they must be taken to a court to enforce. And, the law in these areas is complex. So I would take any contract with a grain of salt.

Some simple personal rules apply:
1. Fundamentally, no matter the shells in the game it is one person buying an asset from another. Remember that and you will be a long way into not making a mistake.
2. NEVER buy a boat or asset from a financial institution.
3. NEVER use a loan to buy the boat or asset.
4. INSIST ON KNOWING THE BUYER OR SELLER (the person making the decision) in fact conducting the decision part of the deal with him or her if you can, yes intermediaries can to the forth and back but the initial start and completion of the negotiation should be done eye to eye or ear or ear.
5. AGREE up front the jurisdiction the transaction made, conducted and completed.
Brokers hate number 4. but once they understand it is the only way the deal will happen they come around. They are facilitators and need to understand that. What I mean is you may use a broker, attorney or other agent for the negotiations forth and back but you need to have that personal contact with your actual buyer or seller decision makers on expensive yachts.

Importantly, limit the agent's responsibility in the transaction to negotiations not legal matter or the contracts or contract offers.

Houses are different and the law situation is different. Nearly decision makers on expensive yachts are business people to one degree or another... most are sophisticated.

At bit of trivia for thought. In France there are independent self employed minor governmental officials called a Notaire. People commonly know Notaires in respect to real estate transactions or inheritance issues. But they handle company law, contracts of all kinds, and assets. The best way to buy any asset is to use a Notaire for the transaction as it is guaranteed and secured AND IMPORTANTLY has the legal effect of a Judgement. It is fully enforceable with the effect of law... the Notaire's seal is absolute. The only down side of this for some is simply the Notaire will make sure the legally due taxation is paid. The contract made with a Notaire's services has the effect of law and judgement and is unassailable except if a very high standard of proof is made that the Notaire made a mistake wherein the mistake is covered and backed by all the Notaire in France. One does not need to go to court to enforce.

This is really hard for Americans to comprehend...

Now some explanation as to the tax issue... if the Notaire is handing the transaction for you personally you will be paying VAT and all transfer taxes if you own the boat personally... unless the the VAT had been previously paid wherein if the Notaire determines that you are home free... no tax authority will question the Notaire's determination as it is an unassailable judgement of law. If some offshore trust or company owns the boat the Notaire transaction is unassailable as to that fact and the correct taxes having been paid. So the commercial exemption is well founded. The French authorities tend not to question such matters once the paperwork is reviewed because the Notaire's seal is official. Only in the case of blatant / criminal disregard for the law in what you do can you get into trouble down the road.

Hi,

If contemplating getting it shipped to Male you would do very well to consider that once underway to Australia there is nowhere to stop or re provision/refuel and to attempt this journey on a vessel you are not familiar with or sure of the performance /reliability of is really taking a chance.

What Quarantine costs are you referring to?