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Cruising boats flee Thailand after rules change

Discussion in 'General Yachting Discussion' started by brian eiland, Mar 8, 2014.

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  1. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    Governments of the world beware. Countries popular with cruising sailors reap good economic benefits, but cruising yachts are designed to move, and cruising sailors will vote with their lifted anchors when authorities, by design or accident, make it difficult or more expensive for visiting yachts. Many countries have experienced this, and Thailand is only the latest.

    By a bureaucratic mistake which included boats in a new law actually meant for motor vehicles, 20% of the visiting yachts to Phuket left in the first two months after the law was passed on December 26. According to Nunthita Wirikup, Director of the Phuket Customs Department, 'This 20 per cent (of the foreign-registered boats) left in the eight weeks it took us to get the two-month rule rescinded on February 19.'

    Before December 26 last year, foreign-registered yachts could be kept in Phuket for up to six months but on that date, according to the Phuket News, the Customs Department brought in a new rule that owners or skippers must 're-register' their boats every two months during the six months.

    Now, that rule has been dropped. In fact, the regulations have been relaxed and more is to come, said Ms Sirikup in an interview with Phuket News, after she has consulted with other relevant government departments.

    For now, she said, the rules state that a foreign-flagged yacht may be kept in Phuket waters for up to six months. A relaxation of the rules means this period may be extended by four months by applying to the Phuket Customs Office and a further two months by application to the Southern Region Customs Director, Prayuk Maneechot, who is based in Songkhla, overseeing all 17 custom offices in the South.

    These extensions, she stressed, will be given only in cases of special need. She added, 'The total maximum duration is not more than one year, though we might be able to allow an extension beyond one year in cases of dire necessity.'

    Mrs Nunthita told The Phuket News, 'The reason we changed to two months previously, was that the Customs Department [in Bangkok] made the mistake of issuing the new rules based on the need to curb smuggling of cars.

    'When the two-month rule was issued, I did not know they were going to do this. I had to chase the problem all the way up to Rakop Srisuppaaod, the Director-General in Bangkok, to approve reverting to the old six-month yacht stay rules.

    'Now we are using the same law but adjusting some of the basic rules to suit the needs of boat owners or captains, but we need time to correct some of the other rules so that they are the same countrywide.

    'I would like to see the Phuket Customs Department become the centre for administration of the customs regulations applying to boats. This is under consideration [in Bangkok].'

    Apart from the ability to get extensions of stay for a boat, Mrs Nunthita explained other changes that have now been brought in that should gladden the hearts of yachties.

    'The old rule linking the length of stay for a boat with the owner or captain’s personal permit to stay in Thailand has been cancelled.' Previously a boat was not allowed to be kept in Thai waters after the owner of captain’s permit to stay expired. Both boat and owner had to leave together.

    But, Mrs Nunthita stressed, 'The boat stay is temporary only. It is not permanent. If you want the boat to stay here permanently without any problem, you should register your boat under the Thai flag.'

    Asked about the fees, she told The Phuket News, 'There is no charge to extend the stay of a boat. However, if the boat ‘overstays’, people should understand that the old fine of B500 ($15) a day has been increased to B1,000($30) per day, up to a maximum of B10,000 ($300).


    by Sail-World Cruising/Phuket News
    Sail-World.com : Cruising boats flee Thailand after rules change
  2. colintraveller

    colintraveller Senior Member

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    Well they view people that can buy a Yacht can afford any price increase ..
  3. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    It might make sense to have a boat built in Thailand to live onboard. The perhaps that boat would not incur those fees, nor be limited in its duration of visit.
  4. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    They would learn from the US that even buying a boat made in the US and owned by a foreign national, is classified as foreign owned vessel. Governments survive on revenue created by individuals and Corporations etc
    so they watch what other Nations do and if it seems to work, adopt it...if your co worker does the same job as you do , gets a raise, I guess you don't want a raise also ?
  5. brian eiland

    brian eiland Senior Member

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    If built and registered in the US, is that still true?
  6. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Yes, even if registered, however, foreign nationals cannot document US built vessels unless through a US Corporation.
  7. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    Well, it is foreign owned. But I'm not sure what foreign owned really does to the situation. It can still be registered in the state it's kept in, Titled if it's a state that Titles boats. This is different than being foreign flagged. And the restrictions on the properly registered boat are minimal. Now the restrictions and entry requirements and visas for the foreign individual who owns it are more complex. But you register a foreign owned vessel in Florida and you have no problem docking it or anything else and no additional taxes as a result of it being foreign owned.

    If it was foreign built and US duties have never been paid then that must be handled when importing it.
  8. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    There are extra costs involved in foreign ownership or flagging, even if titled in the US, however there are also some offsetting savings available which may balance out.
    Foreign owned vessels must have an annual cruising license which requires a visit to a foreign port annually in order to be able to renew, however, foreign vessels cruising the US and staying there specially Florida, will not have to pay sales tax or use tax as long as operating under annual cruising license provided the vessel is not part of other real holdings in that state.

    The use of a Corporate veil would of course protect the identity of the owners and this would prevent the state from identifying any other property holdings the individual may have, this of course is also beneficial to residents of the state who then can foreign flag a vessel and escape taxes on the vessel.
  9. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    Wrong. A cruising license is an option for some boats.

    "Cruising licenses exempt pleasure boats of certain countries from having to undergo formal entry and clearance procedures and can be obtained from the CBP Port Direct at the first port of arrival in the United States. U.S. pleasure craft and foreign-flag vessels without a cruising license, which are 30 feet or longer in length, must pay an annual fee of $27.50 for the user fee decal. User Fee Decals may be purchased online through the CBP Web site."

    https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/226/~/pleasure-boats---procedures-for-entering-the-u.s.


    Not necessarily.

    "Resident aliens may apply for successive cruising licenses if their foreign-flag vessel was made in the U.S. or if duty has been paid on its importation provided that the vessel is documented under the laws of one of the countries listed in 19 CFR 4.94(b). Under CBP policy, non-U.S. residents are not eligible for successive cruising licenses."

    https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/608/kw/cruising permits/suggested/1
  10. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    So are you saying that an annual decal will substitute for an annual cruising license ?? Sorry Marmot I disagree a vessel over 30 ft that is owned by a foreigner MUST obtain an annual cruising license should they wish to cruise from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, unless of course they wish only to obtain permits to proceed.
    An annual decal is purely a vessel processing fee, no fee for cruising license.
    I have been subject to these rules for 6 yrs now and there are no jurisdictions where I have been that will exempt me from the following, unless I incorporate which I have no desire to do. A senior CBP officer in Ft Myers told me specifically that an annual decal will not exempt me from a cruising license.

    In order to renew that license, (unless resident alien) they must depart annually in order to renew. as follows
    Under CBP policy, non-U.S. residents are not eligible for successive cruising licenses. A new license will not be issued unless the following two conditions have been met: (1) at least 15 days have elapsed since the previous license either expired or was surrendered, and (2) the vessel arrives in the U.S. from a foreign port or place. (Customs Directive 3130-006A) CBP will want to see foreign clearance paperwork as evidence that you are arriving from a foreign location.
    From CBP website as follows.
    If traveling via boat with a cruising permit, do I have to report our departure to Customs and Border Protection (CBP) when leaving the U.S.?
    pleasure boats from foreign countries must obtain clearance before leaving a port or place in the U.S. and proceeding either to a foreign port or place or going to another port or place in the U.S.

    I have also requested further clarification from CBP in light of your statements.
  11. Marmot

    Marmot Senior Member

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    "... unless of course they wish only to obtain permits to proceed."

    There you go ... that means you don't HAVE to obtain a cruising license. Not all foreign flags are eligible so means not only do you NOT have to obtain one but some people cannot obtain one.

    You wrote: "Foreign owned vessels must have an annual cruising license ..." and I pointed out that is not true. It is no big deal, just a correction of a misrepresentation that might create problems for some people.
  12. olderboater

    olderboater Senior Member

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    I might also point out that he used the words "Foreign owned vessels" and not "Foreign Flagged Vessels" but all the discussion has evolved to Foreign Flagged and the assumption now is that is what he meant. That is what the rules Marmot has so ably posted apply against.

    However, a vessel may be foreign owned and not foreign flagged. That brings about an entirely different set of circumstances.
  13. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    The original poster referred to both..foreign owned and foreign flagged.

    The only real difference I see between the two as far a cruising licenses are concerned, is the flag state of the vessel owned by a US resident alien, this would dictate whether the vessel has to leave annually for renewal or can obtain successive licenses without leaving. 3130-006A

    Customs has informed me that there is no difference as to the license or permit requirement if the owner or the flag state wishes to cruise between jurisdictions, and the requirement to depart annually exists unless as stated in the para above.

    I refer only to pleasure craft.
  14. dennismc

    dennismc Senior Member

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    Just to add to the mix...I was informed that a permit to proceed is only issued 24 hrs prior to departure and there is no docking between start port and ending port, I had to do this once and got royally reamed out and threatened with vessel impounding for docking overnight on the journey. Henceforth the annual license is way less risky even though a PITA.