Using the Washing machine?

back to tha washing machines

my 2 Cents from the dry land...

If you have place to use a top loader machine, the tub hangs on two points (not only on one point like front loaders). This is more stable on transports.

we use a condenser dryer - it gives you free clear water for the clothes iron and will reduce the moisture in the rooms.

Here is the wording of the ordinance in Nantucket:

"The dumping or discharge of oil, sewage, dead fish, garbage, waste, rubbish or debris of any kind anywhere so as to pollute the waters, shores or beaches of the Town is prohibited. The use of on-board laundry or mechanical dishwashing machinery with over-board discharge is also prohibited in Nantucket waterways as defined in § 137-1. "

Here's another, easy to read link to the entire section on use of waterways and wharves in Nantucket, from which the above was excerpted.

http://www.nantucket-ma.gov/Pages/NantucketMA_Marine/Regulations/wharves.pdf

Notice that they define "gray water" in the pre-amble, but do not include gray water in the pollution paragraph.

In the few times we moored out there,now going on 5 years ago I do not remember the ban on using machinery, or if we even did while there (pretty sure we used the dishwasher on one trip). Plenty of launches, dinghys, harbormaster boats passed by all the time and never a word about showers being taken, dishes done etc. I notice the Boat Basin paints a stricter view on their web site, which is not reflected in any ordinance I can find. Perhaps they just want to have their area to appear as squeaky clean as possible. But if you think the swells who bring their big yachts in there are going to the communal shower rooms to take a shower, or are not washing their dishes on board (manually or otherwise) ya gotta another think coming.

Go look at the specs for laundry and dishwashing soaps now being sold. For instance, one big issue with dishwashing soaps is that the use of phosphates has been banned, and it became harder to get glasses crystal clear cleaned.
So unless you have some stash of really old stuff, you are going to meet EPA standards just fine.

Ultra-sensitive areas like Biscayne National Park, Everglades National and the Keys haven't put any bans out yet either. Lake Champlain is another, and they have the toughest head-scuring laws anywhere, though they do jaw bone people to try and minimize it. Lake Tahoe and and Lake george have prohibitions, but they are kind of hard to get to with a non-trailerable craft.

Pour and scrape the fat into a jar. Then wash the pan with Dawn.

Hi,

Caltexflanc, You might find that the last time you were in that area the current rules and regs had not come into force yet.

You talk about big boats being put off, a big boat will have holding capacity for a couple of days at least and as they grow in size can hold in excess of 20,000 US Gal of grey water.

There are many yachting ports in Europe where Zero Discharge has been brought into effect last season.

These places usually have a barge and or truck service that can take whatever you pump off for a fee.

Times are changing and believe it or not even the Owners and Operators of any size vessel have a moral if not legal obligation to reduce their footprint and abide by rules and regulations in place in the areas they visit.

No, apparently they were. And, the ordinance I and another poster put up is the current law. It is very rare to find a vessel in the US, including the big guys, that have a gray water tank. Where exactly in Europe is this practiced?

Retrofitting 99.9% of the boats on the water to keep gray water on board just isn't going to happen. So the inexorable movement, helped by environmental concerns on land, is towards continually improving the enviro-friendliness of soaps and detergents. Getting rid of phosphates is a big one.

Hi,

I don't know what your idea of a big boat is but seriously doubt that there are many if any 30m/100ft boats that do not have any holding tank capacity.

Two ports where I know for definite that zero discharge has been enforced last season - Port Hercule, Monaco and Port Camille Rayon, Golfe Juan, France.

Let's Be Real

Regulations like what's been talked about on Nantucket have precious little to do with stopping pollution. It's about little people who happen to have some money trying to make themselves feel important by pushing other people around. Nantucket is a perfect example. If they really wanted to stop pollution they'd ban motorized vessels from entering their harbor and cars on the island. After all, where do all those gas and diesel exhaust fumes and the ablative anti-fouling paint go? But of course that would kill the economy on Nantucket. Ever drive around the island? Notice the beautiful landscaping and the golf course? That's fertilizer. Where does that go when it rains? Why not tell the golfers to play on sand and ban all but natural landscaping? That's right, it would kill the economy. How about all the storm drains, where do they empty into? How about the homes with their septic systems? That water goes into the ground, and then into the bays. Why aren't the homes required to store their gray water and have it transported off the island? MONEY! I also haven't noticed a year's worth of dirt on most of the cars there. Where does all that soapy water and wax go?
I've been re-using my plastic containers since long before recycling became fashionable. I don't drink bottled water except when in a place that the tap water is disgusting. I don't waste. I've never thrown garbage on the street. I was ecologically friendly long before there was such a catch phrase as carbon footprint. (BTW, have you heard about trading carbon credits? What's that about, except someone with money buying an exemption?) I supported Pete Seeger and his efforts to clean up the Hudson. I use recycled paper bags for my groceries when I can get them, and then re-use those paper bags to hold my papers for recycling.

So sorry tree-huggers, but don't try to bother me until after you clean up the garbage island the size of a continent floating in the middle of the Pacific, and stop the use of fertilizers and the dumping of industrial waste. Where's all the solar and wind power generation? We have the technology. That right, it's not cost effective. Money! Talk to me after you stop the fracking, the shale mining and the clear-cutting of our forests for McMansion developments. Stop the people who make their living by polluting. Do that and I'll stop taking my daily shower.

Definitely NOT PC

Hi,

Haven't you got a chip on your shoulder today.

The effort to stop unneccessary discharges has to start somewhere, whilst there are folks with your attitude I doubt much will be achieved.

Always gets me tight when people try to impose nonsense rules on me while ignoring the real problems because it's not in their financial interests. Talk to the kids about it "has to start somewhere". I'm way too jaded and have already paid my dues. My "carbon footprint" is probably way way way lower than 99% of the people you deal with. I just want clean clothes and a shower.

Happy to read that you support New York State's No Discharge Zones.

New York State's No Discharge Zones - NYS Dept. of Environmental Conservation

All no discharge zones:

No Discharge Zones by State | Vessel Water Discharge | US EPA

It should be noted that the pollution of the Hudson River had NOTHING to do with gray water or even black water being discharged from boats, even when everybody pumped directly into the water. About what my taking a shower has to do with pollution any place else in the world. It was GE and the chemical companies pumping millions of gallons of industrial waste into the river. Tell me that commercial garbage and municipal waste won't be pumped into Reynold's Channel on LI's south shore, the waste treatment plant in the Bronx won't pump untreated sewage into Long Island Sound, and the fertilizers and pesticides that run into the water from the beautifully landscaped yards every time it rains have been banned and abated. Then I'll be concerned about my shower or the couple small loads of laundry I do on a boat.

That's why I don't hesitate to tell them to get bent. Let them be frustrated, because I won't be. These are the same guys who drive their Prius 55 in the left lane of the expressways in order to feel some power in their lives by holding up traffic. They won't get it at my expense. Let them go home and stand up to their wives if they think they've grown a pair. But of course we know she'll kick his tail which is why they're trying to feel power by controling strangers. If someone has taken on a big polluter and won, then he can lecture me.

Erin, care to weigh in?

P.S. Did he expect you to wash your boat with bottled water?

Regarding chlorine's toxicity, read the last sentence of the EPA report...




OPPT Chemical Fact Sheet EPA 749-F-94-010

CHEMICALS IN THE ENVIRONMENT: CHLORINE (CAS NO. 7782-50-5)
prepared by
OFFICE OF POLLUTION PREVENTION AND TOXICS
U.S. ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION AGENCY
August 1994

__________________________________________________________________________

Chemicals can be released to the environment as a result of their
manufacture, processing, and use. EPA has developed information
summaries on selected chemicals to describe how you might be exposed to
these chemicals, how exposure to them might affect you and the environ-
ment, what happens to them in the environment, who regulates them, and
whom to contact for additional information. EPA is committed to reducing
environmental releases of chemicals through source reduction and other
practices that reduce creation of pollutants.
__________________________________________________________________________


WHAT IS CHLORINE, HOW IS IT USED, AND HOW MIGHT I BE EXPOSED?

Chlorine is a highly reactive gas. It is a naturally occurring
element. Chlorine is produced in very large amounts (23 billion pounds in
1992) by eighteen companies in the United States. US demand for chlorine
is expected to increase slightly over the next several years and then
decline. The expected decline in US demand is due to environmental
concerns for chlorinated organic chemicals. The largest users of chlorine
are companies that make ethylene dichloride and other chlorinated solvents,
polyvinyl chloride (PVC) resins, chlorofluorocarbons, and propylene oxide.
Paper companies use chlorine to bleach paper. Water and wastewater
treatment plants use chlorine to reduce water levels of microorganisms that
can spread disease to humans.

Exposure to chlorine can occur in the workplace or in the environment
following releases to air, water, or land. People who use laundry bleach
and swimming pool chemicals containing chlorine products are usually not
exposed to chlorine itself. Chlorine is generally found only in industrial
settings. Chlorine enters the body breathed in with contaminated air or
when consumed with contaminated food or water. It does not remain in the
body due to its reactivity.


WHAT HAPPENS TO CHLORINE IN THE ENVIRONMENT?

Chlorine dissolves when mixed with water. It can also escape from
water and enter air under certain conditions. Most direct releases of
chlorine to the environment are to air and to surface water. Once in air
or in water, chlorine reacts with other chemicals. It combines with
inorganic material in water to form chloride salts. It combines with
organic material in water to form chlorinated organic chemicals. Because
of its reactivity chlorine is not likely to move through the ground and
enter groundwater. Plants and animals are not likely to store chlorine.

HOW DOES CHLORINE AFFECT HUMAN HEALTH AND THE ENVIRONMENT?

Effects of chlorine on human health and the environment depend on how
much chlorine is present and the length and frequency of exposure. Effects
also depend on the health of a person or condition of the environment when
exposure occurs.

Breathing small amounts of chlorine for short periods of time
adversely affects the human respiratory system. Effects range from
coughing and chest pain to water retention in the lungs. Chlorine
irritates the skin, the eyes, and the respiratory system. These effects
are not likely to occur at levels of chlorine that are normally found in
the environment.

Human health effects associated with breathing or otherwise consuming
small amounts of chlorine over long periods of time are not known. They
are currently under investigation. Some studies show that workers develop
adverse effects from repeat inhalation exposure to chlorine, but others do
not. Laboratory studies show that repeat exposure to chlorine in air can
adversely affect the immune system, the blood, the heart, and the
respiratory system of animals.

Chlorine causes environmental harm at low levels. Chlorine is
especially harmful to organisms living in water and in soil.

Well I guess that until the government stops chlorinating our water supply we'd best wash our boats, cars and ourselves only in bottled water. Everybody ready to do that? Then again, if they do we might have a few other things to worry about like terminal diarrhea and the plague. In fact it should be very interesting if they stop using chlorine in our waste treatment plants.
Maybe the Kayaker needs to grumble at the government so they'll ban the use of Chlorine. I'm sure they'll care also.

BTW did you happen to notice that the sentence you pointed to " Chlorine causes environmental harm at low levels. Chlorine is especially harmful to organisms living in water and in soil." seems to be in direct contradiction to this one further up: " Because of its reactivity chlorine is not likely to move through the ground and enter groundwater. Plants and animals are not likely to store chlorine."

Not a scientist, but I don't read that as contradictory - your quote talks about the unlikeliness of it moving thru the soil and getting into the groundwater - different discussion. If some one dumps a bucket of chlorinated water into the seawater while you're jigging up bait, watch what happens. Most boaters don't intentionally put bleach in their bilge either because of its corrosive effects. Not looking for an argument 'cause the subject is way over my pay grade, just trying to add a little science to the discussion. BTW this thread started with trying to get that "thigamajig" out of someone's washing machine?

Right on brother! Heck we have people commenting here that don't seem to know NDZs from gray water.

I have supported the Sierra Club since the early 60's. As a kid I also worked on fund raising for Save The Bay project in San Francisco, a charter member in my own little way. Also have contributed to The Chesapeake version. Lately, the Riverkeeper program on the Neuse River.

To go after gray water, given today's soaps and detergents is just ridiculous , especially when you have the huge issue with aged sewer systems and agricultural run off: anything that diverts attention to that is evil. But fixing the sewers is 100's of billions of dollars, Reps don't want to spend money and Dems think they can get their "green" cred by going after "yachties" .

BTW, couldn't find anything on Port Hercule's site banning gray water discharge; they also don't say anything about having gray water pump out, they specifically just talk about black water pump out. Not saying there isn't , but no mention on the marina's site or that of "Ramoge" , the environmental accord that holds sway there. But again, my French isn't that good either.

You could have clean clothes with less impact than you have now just by buying a more environmentally responsible detergent.

It's ok to do damage as long as someone else is doing more? You won't stop polluting before you're the top polluter? That seems to me to be an incredibly immature view.

That sounds unrealistic, but let's assume it isn't for a minute: it's only possible to "go after yachties" because a few of them openly display their terrible attitudes towards some environmental issues that people care about.