Researching to buy Carver Voyager 56, 2006

A little salesman hyperbole but they key sentence is where you say "perhaps the Bahamas and Caribbean." As to weight the Carver and Marquis are in the 50,000 pound range. As a comparison a 55' Fleming would way 68,000 pounds. a 59' Grand Banks 90,000 pounds, a 54' Hatteras over 70,000 pounds, a 55' Nordhavn 115,000 pounds. Weight isn't the end all but while the Carver and the Marquis might be good choices if your plans were strictly ICW, they wouldn't be my choice if outside cruising and Bahamas and Caribbean were in my thoughts. I would also look carefully at range. Now the other boats I mentioned are very different type boats. However, they are not the boats I would choose for any off shore cruising. I don't picture the boat shaking itself apart but in rough conditions I can well picture you feeling like you were just shaken apart. I would simply choose to have more boat under me. I'm sure Carver and Marquis would brag about how the reduced weight improves performance. In even 6' seas that becomes pretty irrelevant.

I'm not being anti Carver at all, just encouraging you to be careful to match your boat to your desired usage. I'd also say that I'd feel bad if I had a boat in South Florida in that size range (and no other boat there) and didn't find trips to the Bahamas pleasant in it. That's just too much to miss out on.

I disagree. There are many days when outside cruising, and even trips to the Bahamas, will be perfectly comfortable in these boats, assuming you can be flexible in your schedule.

It sounds like you will use your boat in a similar fashion to the way we use our boat. We live in New England, and we use our (68') boat in FL as a second home. My family does not particularly enjoy boating in rough seas, so we simply go places that will be fun for everybody. We are based on the west coast of FL, where the seas outside are relatively calm, more often than not. Accordingly, we make as many (or more) outside trips as we make inside trips. If it is rough outside, we simply go someplace closer, and everybody enjoys meandering up or down the ICW. We make trips to the east coast, and we've made trips to the Bahamas. I can't think of a family trip that we have made that couldn't have been made in either of the boats you are considering. When we're down south, we're on vacation, so we're flexible.

I have made some trips (without my family!) that were in rough seas. Had I owned a Carver or Marquis, these trips would have taken longer, because I would have had to go slower, or I have have had to select an inside route, or I would have had to wait for a better weather window.

The great thing about Florida boating is that there is an "inside" for the bad days, and an "outside" for the good days. If you think you might want/need to be outside on the bad days, buy a "beefier" boat than a Marquis or Carver. If not, I suspect you'll enjoy either, assuming you find one that is in good condition.

The Marquis is not a very well made boat. It is average at best and I personally know of 3 that have caught fire in various capacities. I saw a 58' where it shattered the hull windows in a sea because the hull flexed so much. One burning to the waterline while the family was snorkeling behind it, losing their family dog. All of the hardware on the boat is undersized and not strong enough from the hinges, to the cleats, to the interior hardware. I've run from a 42' with IPS to a 68' Marquis and the quality is just not there. That being said you could cruise the Carribean in one if you kept the seas under 5' without things falling apart. You'd be much better served by a SeaRay 58' Sedan Bridge that is not going to fall apart even though I wouldn't recommend crossing in more than 5' seas either, although the boat will do it. The older Sea Ray's age well. I just delivered a 1991 50' Sea Ray from Ft. Laud,FL to Myrtle Beach, SC that I have managed for 10 years. It was the first time I slept on the boat. As I did I was amazed that all of the interior is 100% intact and in good condition, and all of the interior materials are still in good condition where's on a larger 1999 Azimut I manage the wall coverings look like drapes at the bottom from delaminating and the rest of the interior shows all sorts of age. We also had no major issues and quite frankly it was a good running boat.

Stabilizers. The lack of Stabilizers has nothing to do with whether or not the boat is an ocean going boat. Most all European yachts don't have stabilizers. Why? Because the hull design is so stabile that they are not needed. If you have a very stabil hull, then the only thing stabilizers do is cost a lot and slow you down.

I would say the Bahamas change that ability to choose a bit. Yes, you can try to avoid rough conditions. However, if you're making enough trips to the Bahamas you will get caught by some rough conditions sometimes. And further into the Caribbean even more so. Conditions can turn on you, especially crossing the gulf stream. Most of the time you can pick weather windows and the conditions will be as you thought. But sometimes it will change on you during one of those trips. Probably not dangerously so, but certainly very uncomfortably so.

That said, different people have different tolerances. If I was planning on coastal cruising where if I went outside, I could always dart back inside if conditions appeared to be worsening, then although not my boat of choice, I would be comfortable with the Carver or Marquis. But just as a personal preference, if I was planning on Bahamas and Caribbean, I would not be.

In an answer to a question like this, I would expect many different answers as it is just opinion and we each have a different level of tolerance and risk. Also, the question isn't just are they acceptable boats for those uses, but are they the preferred boats or are those we'd recommend above them for the described uses.

I would concur that the Sea Ray is a better built boat, at a similar price point. The Carver/Marquis lines tend to focus more on accommodations, and less on seaworthiness. I would personally trade some accommodations in favor of seaworthiness.

If I were downsizing (both length and price), I'd be looking at a 55/58 Sedan Bridge. (For the benefit of the original poster, the 55 and 58 are the same boat, but the newer models include the swim platform in the measurement). Good boat, and readily serviced. Lots of them were built, so there are many to choose from.

The drawback to the 55/58 Sedan Bridge is it does not offer a lower helm, isolating the operator from the rest of the "gang" having a good voyage in a comfy and climate controlled salon.

At a lower helm, you're alienated from everyone else also as they are behind you, not next to you or in front of you. Down here a lower helm is nice to have about 1/100th of the time. Besides with cruising the Bahamas and Carribbean I don't see the upper helm only as being a problem. The upper helm on a 58' Sedan Bridge is fully enclosed and climate controlled as well. For the money, I'd take that over a Marquis, everyday including Sundays!

Another good option is a 2002 or newer 63' Hatteras MY with C18's.

Look around, the majority of boats in that class have a lower helm, the main complaint fro SR Sedan bridge owners where their families would be enjoying themsleves in the salon and they would be left alone at the helm. There really is no alienation, as you can easily be apart of the converstaions/interactions and do not have to fly solo on extended cruising legs. Even SR has seen the light with its new products that have a fully function Lower helm, even if it is for the 1/100th of use...

Totally agree, the upper and lower helms (if selected as an option) of the Voyager are not well done, looking out their curved glass always distorted my field of vision.

Agreed, as it too has a Lower Helm

A good point made in comparing boats from different builders too. A lot of different methods in naming/numbering boats. When comparing I found some 58's larger than some 62's. There was one builder's 58 that didn't include the swim platform which was a monstrous 7'.

Well, you've got your radar tuned a long way out! You're now at the polar opposite boating spectrum with a Bering trawler.

I don't know much about either boat, but the Bering is going to be slow.

Consider draft. Bering draws 6', rendering some of your proposed cruising areas more of a challenge.

I've been on Marlows. Well done, from what I could gather at the dock.

Both are fine choices. How are you at running a yacht and maintaining/fixing an engine? A single engine trawler will be more of a challenge to dock, and if something happens on that single engine at sea, in the Carribbean such as a raw water impellor or fuel filters, you're going to have to be able to fix it right then and there. But, how on earth does a steel yacht have lower operating costs???

I would look at a Fleming over both in that size range. But the other two can be good choices as well. I'd also take a hard look at the 58' Searays and the 63' Hatteras MY's. The 63' Hatteras sounds like it's more of the boat you're looking for based on speed, range, draft, interior volume and seakeeping.

What boat do you have on the Great Lakes and what do you like and dislike about it?

I thought hearing that might give a better idea as to your style and preferences in general.

They have a 58' Bluewater, they mentioned which is a glorified houseboat.

Cruising around Florida is coastal cruising. It's probably not a lot different than the Great Lakes. You don't need a safe boat, you need to practice safe boating. If you try to run a shallow inlet in the wrong conditions, it won't make any difference if you are in a steel trawler, or a Carver ... the outcome could be ugly.

To me, "big water boating", means going for extended trips offshore (days away from port) or leaving the dock even when conditions are forecast to be miserable. If you really think you are going to be "big water boating", buy a "beefier" boat. Hatteras, Bering, Marlow ... whatever appeals to you.

If you think you can always plan your trips around the weather, or use an inside route as a trip option, open your search up to "lighter duty" boats. Carver, Marquis, Sea Ray, as examples.

And then, there are a myriad of boats "in the middle". I'd consider my boat (Lazzara) "in the middle"" and I haven't been close to testing it's "big water capabilities". I've probably been in 10 footers, head on, and the boat is up for more than I am. The boat didn't break, but I was awful tired at the end of the day.

Don't get me wrong, "more seaworthy" is a great feature, but I think it is probably overemphasized by brokers, dealers, and experienced yacht captains. Most recreational boaters just don't "need" big water cruising capacity. Consider that capacity as a feature, and weigh it with other features.

Look at lots of boats. Ask for advice, but recognize that there are as many opinions about boats, as there are boats.

Buy what feels right to you. Then, a year or two later, buy what feels right to you that year ... And so on.

So the size you're talking about fits with your experience, in the range of 55-65 feet probably. The Bluewater does have a lot of space. I'm assuming based on the typical engines on the Bluewater that most of your cruising is 12 knots or so? What is it's top speed?

In hearing more it does sound like a trawler type is consistent with what you've enjoyed.

The Fleming 55 is a great boat. There are others in that range like Serene. Now the difference when you go to a Grand Banks or Marlow is that you pick up more speed, accompanied by more cost to maintain and operate. Hatteras would be even more in that direction. Nordhavn takes you in another direction, still a trawler but beefed up for rougher conditions.

As to single vs. twin engines, there's been a lot of discussion here. The majority, of which I'm not a part, seemed to favor single. You might search some of the old threads. The point about docking is largely negated if the single has thrusters. If not, it's a big issue.

Since you mentioned the Marlow 61E, I love the style and the layout. I'd also look at the 57E. One thing to keep in mind on the 61 is that the LOA is 69'.

The Fleming is not just shorter but 2' narrower than both of the Marlows.

Grand Banks 59' Aleutian also fits in well with what you're thinking. If you want larger, there is also a 65'. Like the Marlows these are semi-displacement.

With Coastal Cruising as a priority I'd steer away from Nordhavn. One you're paying for some boat you don't need. But more it is taller (creating more clearance issues) and it's draft is much greater. While the boats listed above are 5', a 60' Nordhavn has a draft of 6'8".

There are things I really like about Bering, but are you ready to switch to steel? Also are you ready to go even slower as a typical cruise speed is in the area of 8 knots. They are single engines. They also offer get home engines but looking at the used market I don't know how many would have them. Then they also have a 6' draft. I personally targeted 5' for coastal cruising although I did consider 6'. It's not impossible, it's just a little more problematic. Each foot draft you add means just a bit more watching tides. On the other hand I'm not going to take a 5' draft anywhere I wouldn't go with 6'. I look for 7' depth minimum. But a Bering or any other steel trawler will be a very different experience from your Bluewater.

Hatteras was tossed out and I'm a huge fan of Hatteras (guess it's from being a NC native). For your use though I'd tend to lean away from the Convertibles and toward the MY's. A Convertible in that size range would provide considerably less space than you're accustomed. Comparing a 60' Hatteras with a Marlow or Grand Banks in that same range you're gaining in rough water performance and handling. You're gaining significant speed. But you're also increasing cost of maintenance and operation. Last, the usable space versus a Marlow or GB is less as they don't make the same use of the bow (no Portuguese bridge) and the flybridge is perhaps slightly smaller. On the other hand they are extremely well laid out and make excellent use of their space. One caveat is that the height of the arch and hardtop if you get the hardtop put you in trouble if looping and clearing the Chicago bridge was in your plans. In certain conditions it might make it but not in all.

When it's yours and your family's life, always but more boat than you need if you can afford it..safety is paramount

That's a huge "if". Your plans don't always work out as you planned. It's those days where 2 to 4' with 6 seconds is forecast but halfway between your inlets it becomes 6' but the period remains 6 seconds.

Then it comes back to the Bahamas and Caribbean. It sounds like they've been adventurous in the past and I can't imagine not falling in love with the Bahamas and the Keys and then once that happens wanting to go a bit further in the Caribbean. There you are always subject to surprises just due to the duration of the crossing. You can predict well enough not to end up in danger, but not necessarily well enough that it doesn't beat you pretty badly. If the boat makes you hesitant to make those trips, to enjoy what is there, then it becomes a problem. If you get there and wish you'd gone for a more sea worthy boat then it's a bad choice you made. The gulf stream itself is going to take about 3 1/2 hours to cross at 12 knots. Too much boat (I'm not saying too big just overbuilt for your ICW cruising) is less likely to disappoint you than is too little boat. That said, you'll still see a lot of Sea Rays and Carvers crossing and if I had one in the 55-60' range, I would as well. I'd just be slightly more conservative in deciding to go.