Crusader 454

Signed purchase agreement and deposit in the broker's escrow account first. Then - You're not going to really know if the engines overheat or perform properly by running them at the dock. They will need to be run under load. The proper way to do that is to haul the boat first so that you can inspect and clean the bottom and running gear, and then launch and go for a ride. You can do a preliminary look-see at the dock that might only suggest if there are major, obvious issues.

Your the one paying for it. It's your cash and investment. You have the power Luke .If you want it done this way or if you want them to dance to a Polka, put it in the opening bid/contract. If they say no, then your time and more money was not waisted.

I think you missed the point on the zincs; Gas engines are disposable / sacrificial / cheap. If they run well, do what you want, then life is good. Your investment should not be largely into the gas motors but the boat. If they blow up the day after, your investment value should not be largely in peril, or (IMO) you paid to much.

It is true there is a lot less risk in these gas 454s than any diesel. In our marina you can swap out a long block in a day for 6k. If the boat is sound and the engines run well at purchase you're in good shape, worst case then you may be out the price of a small zodiac down the road to replace a long block or rebuild for even less expensive.

Once stripped down the blocks come it of a window or aft deck door pretty easily.

I would compression check, run the boat with a surveyor, and do oil samples in engines, gen, and gearbox's. It's pretty easy for a good mechanic to tell if these big blocks are running well and producing power like they should.

I have 950 hours on my 1994 454 crusaders and have run them at 3200 the majority of the time since brand new. They still compression check perfectly and burn literally no oil between 60 hour oil/yearly oil changes. I see no reason they can't go another 1000 or 1500 hours as long as oil changes are still performed the same and regularly yearly tune ups are done as they have been. These carb motors are very simple.

My raw water cooled freshwater motors even still have the original risers and manifolds that look perfect. If you can find a freshwater example I think you just improved your success rate.

Ethanol in Marine Fuel?

Does most gasoline fuel you buy at the marina pumps contain that same lousy ethanol content as the hwy brands?

I had heard some nightmare stories of its reaction with fiberglass tanks, but had not heard of many stories with metal tank problems.

I do realize that the alcohol content does attract more moisture, and that the ethanol fuels tend to 'separate' into components more readily.

Asking RB480 and rcrapps,....and anyone else about adding a supplemental 'hotter spark' ignition system to these engines?

Mine have the crusader electronic ignition system on them but I have not changed a single thing from factory since new. Just impellers, plugs, wires, and belts.

I don't think it would help any. If it has an electronic ignition it should be fine (non points). If you add anything, make sure it is Marine approved.

Stay with the stock MR plugs from A/C.

FRP fuel tanks have been getting a bad hit from the new fuels.
Been a nightmare for Bertram owners.
Some later FRP tanks don't seem to have the problem. So many different resins on the market, some of them just happen not to react with alcohol.
Now days, all FRP tanks are made ready for anything.

Run that alcohol fuel up when you can. More & more dealers and some street side gas stations are selling non-alcohol fuels. Marinas are also selling a fuel that is non-alcohol AND also includes additives for storage and cleaning while running.

Metal tanks are usually not an issue if kept clean. The phase separation in the new fuels make this more of an effort but don't blame the metal tank.
Diligence & effort will save your metal tank.

Maybe we should send the MADD folks after these ethanol blenders.....afterall they are the alcohol chasers, aren't they?....

Electronic Ignition?

I thought I had read where a number of these engines didn't have electronic ignitions?....at least the early ones??

I don't think I would play around with them if they already have it.

Compression Figures

BTW, does anyone know what the pressure reading should be for one of these engines? ...and or a posted source for that info??

I think Crusader spec is 120 - 140 ...so that you're not wasting your time get an accepted offer from the buyer contingent upon your satisfaction of sea trial, survey, and mechanical inspection.

Go on the sea trial first. You're entitled to it once you've put down the deposit. See a cold start up, listen for noise and feel for vibration that's not supposed to be there. Does the boat get on plane like it should, does it hold temp, does it achieve max rpm, does it smell funny etc ...if it does what it's supposed to do and you like the boat ride, then you can move forward and start spending money on mechanics surveyors and haulouts.

Around 140 psi. The actual reading is not the important factor, even reading between all the cylinders is.
The early LBCs had a world of different heads and pistons. Usually the lower compression engines were used and lasted better than the high performance engines. 350hp was about the best reliable hp from LBCs. Every mechanics pressure gage is going to read different. Mine is about 25 years old and has bounced around for every day in 25 years. It reads probably within 15 psi either way, but will work in reading differences between each lung WITCH IS THE IMPORTANT PART OF THE TEST.
No cylinder should be more than 5-10 from the next. AND these are cold readings. Warm block should read no more than 5 between cylinders but nobody wants to squeeze next to a hot engine, even then, you need to crank up and get warmed back up between every 2 readings, so it's not likely to happen on a budget (maybe when it's freezing out side??).

Get down there when the engines are cold. Pull a valve cover vent hose off from the flame arrestor (carb air cleaner looking thing) and point it up. Have them started, rite when it lights listen carefully... Tappet noise, piston noise, bearing noise, exhaust leak and popping from the carb. Any smoke from that crank case vent hose? extra noise from it? Lots of air coming from it? You will be able to smell the gas or exhaust around the engine if there are other problems. Shut that one down and go to the other side, same drill.

Genset? same drill PLUS new CO detectors installed? Whole other thread....

Everything should start rite up on the coldest days, if not, document it. Chokes, batteries, fuel and air should on any day, be able to light em up.
If they turn slow, spin for a long time, pop/backfire, stop with a UG while spinning or just don't start up, something is amis.
That's why you want to be there before anybody has a chance to start them without you.

This could be why you want a reliable (damm good) gas mechanic with you on the first cold visit. Why make a redundant trip?

I've been on too many sea trials when a motor gets hot, or a turbo locks up, or there's a major vibration issue, or it smokes like pig, or it won't make max rpm ...don't really need a mechanic to point those things out and the procedure is always the same whether a mechanic is on board or not, we head back to the dock.

Sometimes on sea trial the boat might be too slow or too loud or it pounds or rolls or it's too wet or too small or too big or the wife doesn't like being inside while underway because she can't see out of the windows or for whatever reason the buyer doesn't want to proceed. Why pay a mechanic $100 an hour to be there?

Go for a ride first and if you like it enough to start spending money on it, then go forward.

In your example; If you went for a ride and any of that happened, the seller and/or buyer waisted everybody's time and I'm sorry to hear about that. A walkthru AND reviewing engine service records by the buyer should have shown some sings that it was in poor shape and anything could happen on it's next ride if it didn't happen already.

I know I said earlier to ask about a non-standard sales approach or sales contract. An eager seller probably would not complain, out loud. You may never know if he is in a pinch or bent over. Just give the seller some respect.


However, I didn't reflect on how I would respond.
This has NO bad reflection on brian eiland who looks like he is doing his research.

An example and attitude of how I sell a boat;
"I'm sorry, If I knew you were a tire kicker and the wife may not like the boat anyway, were not going for a ride on my boat, Go back to the Boat-Trader. You didn't ask for any service history? You, wife or da dawg can't see out the windows, that should of been discovered before you thought about a ride. You want a day of my time? You want a cold boat to start up? you may want a non-standard sales contract (no problem here)? You want to burn my fuel, make me go out in the cold? More time on my equipment? Homework should be done before you waist my time. With so much media available on anything, the smart shopper knows what boat rides high, wet or has round or hard chine rolls".

You want to buy my boat and your homework is complete, sign here, put a deposit in escrow, prove to me your bank or purse can handle it (escrow guarantee), then we schedule a ride. I'll show & run when your ready. I recommend you bring your surveyor and mechanic then. If there are any topics from the surveys and your mechanics reports that concerns them, we can haggle, start over or cancel.

I'm up front on my equipment, I wish more folks were. Despite my attitudes on how to sell, Never had a problem selling a boat.
Easy name here to type on the Internet search, no issues either.

I'm just saying, Please don't waist the sellers time, read more on the forums on a particular model, talk to your friends, Hell; rent or charter a similar boat for a long weekend. Gas, diesel, wind, it's serious bux anyway, treat any deal serious.

I'm sorry, that line about "wife can't see out the window" kind of got to me.

Sorry for the long note,
Ralph Crapps
jax fl

I wish I was making that up. I wish I had only heard it once ...lol.

Yes, knowledgeable buyers and sellers are easier to deal with. The fact is many buyers aren't very knowledgeable about boats. Many sellers aren't either. And with some people a brokers best effort doesn't get a lot of traction.

Sometimes captains aren't the best helpers either ...something about trying to run out the clock on a job that's going away when the boat sells. Not all captains but some.

But if a buyer has an accepted offer and his deposit is in the brokers trust account he is entitled to the contingencies in that contract and that includes a sea trial which the seller is required by the contract to provide.

The poster asked if there was a way to get a feel for the general condition of the engines before commiting to the expense of a full survey.

I believe it is unethical to require a buyer to pay thousands of dollars for professional inspections on a boat when he hasn't even been away from the dock on it. If a buyer chooses to have a surveyor and/or mechanic on day one, fine - there are those who want to move quickly. But I would never write up a deal that requires it. This has been my practice on hundreds of deals and my success rate is not too shabby.

Sometimes deals go bad anyway. I recently had a client (buyer) reject a brokerage sportfisher after sea trial, survey, haulout, and mechanical inspection. He spent about $6K and then rejected the boat. He decided he didn't want a boat with a tower after all. I had a lot of (uncompensated) time invested in this deal but I felt that I had failed because my client spent the money for nothing. I'll sell him another boat but I hate when that happens.

A buyer is entitled to 1 seatrial, unless something goes wrong and they need to do a second seatrial due to weather or mechanical difficulties. It goes both ways. A seller is paying for the Captain (and possibly mate) for the day to run the seatrial, fuel, having the boat washed when it comes back etc etc..... To ask for 2 seatrials is a bit much on a yacht, unless you're talking about a 30' Center console that's no big deal to go run in the ICW 5 minutes away for 5 minutes at cruise. A seller that wants to sell is going to want to make the sale happen. And a knowledgable broker ought to be able to look at the boat and engine room for his client and have a good idea of whether or not it's properly maintained.

A yacht broker friend in Ft Lauderdale says that there are three questions that should be asked of all boat buyers - 1. Do you need financing? 2. Were you abused as a child? 3. Does your wife know what you're doing?

That third question is key.